Highest number of sorties for an airframe

wuzak · Apr 26, 2012

In the the thread about the LW intercepting Mosquitoes in 1941 I posted the fowllowing:

The tenth production B.IX , LR504 flew a total of 200 sorties, serving with both 109 and 105 Squadrons. It was delivered to 109 Squadron on 31 May 1943 and flew its firest operation (target Krefeld) on 21 June 1943. After completing 60 sorties LR504 was assigned to 105 Squadron on 13 March 1944, receiving the Unit Codes 'GB-H'. The aircraft's 100th sortie was completed on 28 September 1944, by which time it sported a night under surface finish and 'needle'-blad propellors. LR504 returned to 109 Squadron in October 1944 but was damaged on 6 December after the undercarriage collapsed on return from an operation to Duisberg. The aircraft was repaired and had flown a further 40 operations by VE Day, including four during 'Operation Manna'.

Ian Thirsk, de Havilland Mosquito, An Illustrated History, Volume 2.

A Mosquito B Mk IX holds the record for the most combat operations flown by an Allied bomber in the Second World War. LR503, known as "F for Freddie" (from its squadron code letters, GB*F), first served with No. 109 and subsequently, No. 105 RAF squadrons. It flew 213 sorties during the war, only to crash at Calgary airport during the Eighth Victory Loan Bond Drive on 10 May 1945, two days after Victory in Europe Day, killing both the pilot, Flt. Lt. Maurice Briggs, DSO, DFC, DFM and navigator Fl. Off. John Baker, DFC and Bar.[

de Havilland Mosquito - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LR504 flew 200 sorties and LR503 flew 213 sorties during the war. LR504, at least, was an Oboe equipped Mosquito used for PFF operations. Most, if not all, of their missions would have been at night, and a significant number probably were to Berlin.

What other aircraft had extraordinarily high numbers of sorties?

wuzak · Apr 26, 2012

What, for example, was the highest number of sorties by a Lancaster or a B-17, Mustangs or Spitfires?

Jabberwocky · Apr 26, 2012

wuzak said:
What, for example, was the highest number of sorties by a Lancaster or a B-17, Mustangs or Spitfires?

R5868 'S for Sugar' has the highest number of sorties for a wartime Lancaster at 137 (combat). W4783 'G for George' has the next most, at 96 combat sorties. It also never suffered a crew fatality.

Edgar Brooks · Apr 27, 2012

Jabberwocky said:
R5868 'S for Sugar' has the highest number of sorties for a wartime Lancaster at 137 (combat). W4783 'G for George' has the next most, at 96 combat sorties. It also never suffered a crew fatality.

Slightly more than that:-
W4964 - 106, DV245 - 119, DV302 - 121, ED588 - 116 (at least,) ED860 - 130, ED888 - 140, ED905 - 100+, EE136 - 109, EE139 - 121, EE176 - 122, JB138 - 123, JB663 - 111, LL806 - 134, LL843 - 118, LL845 - 113, ME746 - 116, ME758 - 108, ME803 - 105, ND458 - 123, ND578 - 100 at least, ND644 - 115, NE181 - 101 PA995 - 100+. Four Halifaxes went over 100 sorties, as did a Mitchell FW111.

A4K · Apr 27, 2012

Interesting info guys, only knew some of those!

FLYBOYJ · Apr 27, 2012

Sorties on an airframe mean little. The main life meter of an airframe is hours. Depending on aircraft and manufacturer, engine starts and landing grear "cycles" are also counted.

wuzak · Apr 27, 2012

FLYBOYJ said:
Sorties on an airframe mean little. The main life meter of an airframe is hours. Depending on aircraft and manufacturer, engine starts and landing grear "cycles" are also counted.

Sure, in the normal scheme of things, and in civilian use.

For WW2 military aircraft sorties were usually over hostile territory or in hostile airspace, and a large number of sorties per airframe was not to be expected. Nor were the airframes expected to reach the hours limit.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 27, 2012

wuzak said:
Sure, in the normal scheme of things, and in civilian use.

For WW2 military aircraft sorties were usually over hostile territory or in hostile airspace, and a large number of sorties per airframe was not to be expected. Nor were the airframes expected to reach the hours limit.

Based on combat, not airframe life. Although a high sortie life airframe is noteworthy, I think one has to look where and how it was operated and the opposition.

wuzak · Apr 27, 2012

FLYBOYJ said:
Based on combat, not airframe life. Although a high sortie life airframe is noteworthy, I think one has to look where and how it was operated and the opposition.

Yes, you would, but that is even harder to do.

Some airframes spent more time training than on missions - like some of the Lancasters in the Dams raid - they only flew one mission but were operated in training flights.

LR504 was an Oboe equipped Mosquito B.IX. For at least some of its 200 sorties it must have been marking targets for main force Lancasters, and being required to fly a predictable course for some time during the operation.

MikeGazdik · Apr 28, 2012

I recall a story on a B-26 Marauder, "Flak Bait", that completed some 202 combat missions before it was retired.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 28, 2012

wuzak said:
Yes, you would, but that is even harder to do.

Some airframes spent more time training than on missions - like some of the Lancasters in the Dams raid - they only flew one mission but were operated in training flights.

LR504 was an Oboe equipped Mosquito B.IX. For at least some of its 200 sorties it must have been marking targets for main force Lancasters, and being required to fly a predictable course for some time during the operation.

And the rest? A sortie can be as short as 20 minutes in the air. Compare the sorties with hours (include training) and now you're showing something

FLYBOYJ · Apr 28, 2012

MikeGazdik said:
I recall a story on a B-26 Marauder, "Flak Bait", that completed some 202 combat missions before it was retired.

Flak Bait logged 717 hours of combat flight time.

wuzak · Apr 28, 2012

FLYBOYJ said:
And the rest? A sortie can be as short as 20 minutes in the air. Compare the sorties with hours (include training) and now you're showing something

What sort of sortie would be 20 minutes - other than an aborted one?

If LR504 wasn't marking targets for main force bombers it is almost certain that it was pathfinding for the main force or participating in Light Night Striking Force raids.

I don't have that information, nor anywhere to look for it at the moment.

As for hours, it probably did less combat hours than Flak Bait, simply because it took less time to get to and return from targets.

evangilder · Apr 28, 2012

I think you are intermixing sortie with combat mission. They are not necessarily the same. A sortie can be any flight, for training, maintenance or a joyride. A combat mission is one where the aircraft goes into bad guy land.

If you are talking about sorties, the aircraft that would be at the top of the list would be trainers, slogging along day in and day out for years with good pilots and knuckleheads.

If you are talking about combat missions, that is quite different. Keep in mind that a lot of fighters of the era were not designed to be still flying today. A good example of this is the F4F Wildcat. I was chatting with a guy that worked on the one near here and the wing fold hinge doesn't have a grease fitting. They didn't bother adding the weight for one because they figured it would average about 25-30 hours before it would be lost!

The B-17 "Knockout Dropper" flew 75 missions with the 303rd BG and came through those missions nearly unscathed.

pbfoot · Apr 28, 2012

In the case of hours and sorties ther must ne a Canso/Catalina right up at he top

Shortround6 · Apr 28, 2012

evangilder said:
I think you are intermixing sortie with combat mission. They are not necessarily the same. A sortie can be any flight, for training, maintenance or a joyride. A combat mission is one where the aircraft goes into bad guy land.

If you are talking about sorties, the aircraft that would be at the top of the list would be trainers, slogging along day in and day out for years with good pilots and knuckleheads.

If you are talking about combat missions, that is quite different. Keep in mind that a lot of fighters of the era were not designed to be still flying today. A good example of this is the F4F Wildcat. I was chatting with a guy that worked on the one near here and the wing fold hinge doesn't have a grease fitting. They didn't bother adding the weight for one because they figured it would average about 25-30 hours before it would be lost!

The B-17 "Knockout Dropper" flew 75 missions with the 303rd BG and came through those missions nearly unscathed.

Quite right.

Which is harder on an airframe, an 8 hour bombing mission in which the plane is not hit or 8 hours of touch and go landings with student pilots?

wuzak · Apr 28, 2012

evangilder said:
I think you are intermixing sortie with combat mission. They are not necessarily the same. A sortie can be any flight, for training, maintenance or a joyride. A combat mission is one where the aircraft goes into bad guy land.

http://www.mossie.org/images/donated_images/Neil_Hutchinson/LR503.jpg

From the 203 painted on bomb symbols I would guess that the whole sortie count, of 213, for LR503 were bombing missions.

LR503 appears also to be an Oboe equipped aircraft.

evangilder said:
The B-17 "Knockout Dropper" flew 75 missions with the 303rd BG and came through those missions nearly unscathed.

That is impressive. What model B-17 was it, and over what period did it do its missions?

I assume it had at least 3 crews during that time?

wuzak · Apr 28, 2012

Lots of bombs painted on LR504 too...

http://www.mossie.org/images/donated_images/Neil_Hutchinson/LR504_BOURN_AUG44.jpg

wuzak · Apr 28, 2012

F for Freddie with a full count of 213

http://www.dunrobincastle.com/Nose_Art/WW2Planes/WW2P_images/Freddie_mosquito_orig2_BW.jpg

pbfoot · Apr 28, 2012

I don't know how many sorties but I'll bet this Buffalo passed the 200-300 with its 42 kills
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/highest-scoring-airframe-22859-2.html#post624976

Highest number of sorties for an airframe

Captain

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