Hindsight

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billrunnels

billrunnels

Distinguished Member
B-17 Bombardier
8AF, 303bg, 360bs
1,124
1,367
Oct 13, 2017
Minnesota, USA
While I am content with The Army Air Corps Cadet program choice during WWII, I think back to other opportunities I had and wonder how they would have turned out. Both opportunities would most likely have prevented combat duty.

The first came shortly after reporting for duty. I was three weeks into Basic Training, Jefferson Barracks, St. Louis, Missouri, when summoned to the unit head quarters. The base bandmaster informed me the band needed a baritone player and he noticed in my file I played one. He tried his best to get me to exit the cadet program and join the band. I was committed and declined his offer. Thinking about it today I would be more inclined to consider the offer. I could have spent long weekends at home, enjoyed Cardinal baseball games. A friend of mine joined the Navy and played in small bands on troop ships. The jewel in his crown was he played trombone in the Navy Band at President Roosevelt's funeral ceremony. Now that would be something to tell your grandchildren about. Who knows what I would have experienced had I joined the band at JB. I enjoy listening to military bands today and can still tune in the baritone part in the music I played many times.

The second opportunity came within an hour following graduation from Bombardier School. I was paged to report to a major in the headquarter building. He informed me I had scored in the top ten of our class and they wanted me to remain there as an instructor. Learning it was a request rather than an order I declined. What would the future have offered had I stayed. Possibly a post war assignment to a B-29 crew, maybe a career. I wonder.

I find thinking about these missed opportunities to be stimulating and at this age I can use all the stimulation I can muster. :occasion5:
 
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What about the transition back to civilian life after the war? For instance, the B-17 Bombardier in the 1946 movie The Best Years of Our Lives has a difficult time letting go of his service in the war and can't begin to move on until he reconnects with that experience in this scene:




Back to your post / thought experiment - as for the band, there would have been some unique aspects to playing in a military band during WW2, yet finding and joining a military style or even "big band" group would be possible even today. So music wasn't an all or nothing opportunity cost to joining a B-17 crew. As for the instructor position, the Air Force has a term for the modern equivalent: FAIP (First Assignment Instructor Pilot). Only the top 20% of graduating classes get offered that position. Yet in the accumulated / collective wisdom of many USAF pilots over the years, it is generally considered to be a position avoided at all costs. Take that for what you will, but even the movie Top Gun, arguably the largest celebration of air crew instructors ever, doesn't end with graduation - it allows the students to get some (more) operational experience before concluding!

This next item is based on a relatively small sample size of anecdotal evidence - so I could be way off base. That said, another thing I've observed multiple times is that WW2 veterans, with a few exceptions, seem like they are very surprised when they are honored at events. Almost as if they underestimate the significance of their experience because "everyone" participated in the war back then so their experience was framed as "normal" in their own mind. Perhaps nobody in their family took the time to ask them about their experiences, it's hard to say. Yet I've seen the face of more than one veteran light up like a kid at Christmas when they see a crowd hanging on every word of their stories and then give them a standing ovation afterwards. Too often I get the feeling that in all this time, no one had given them any recognition for their accomplishments.

Like the Spartans at Thermopylae or the ships-of-the-line at Trafalgar, there will never again be massed formations of B-17s making contrails in the skies. If we cobbled together all the roughly dozen or so B-17s flying today worldwide, we could barely make a small formation. You witnessed a lot of incredible things firsthand that will never be seen again. Since you fortunately survived the experience in (I assume) good health, that would be a pretty big opportunity cost to have played in a band or to have been an instructor - and you still have time to play music and/or to teach!
 
at6 said:
Bill,
It's said that hind sight is 2020. If you stop to think about it, would you really have done anything differently? If you had, we wouldn't have any of your wonderful stories.
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Thank you for the kind words about my stories. I would't change a thing but it is
at6 said:
Bill,
It's said that hind sight is 2020. If you stop to think about it, would you really have done anything differently? If you had, we wouldn't have any of your wonderful stories.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words about my stories.I would't change a thing but I find the "what if" thought to be interesting.:crazy:
 
YGBSM said:
What about the transition back to civilian life after the war? For instance, the B-17 Bombardier in the 1946 movie The Best Years of Our Lives has a difficult time letting go of his service in the war and can't begin to move on until he reconnects with that experience in this scene:




Back to your post / thought experiment - as for the band, there would have been some unique aspects to playing in a military band during WW2, yet finding and joining a military style or even "big band" group would be possible even today. So music wasn't an all or nothing opportunity cost to joining a B-17 crew. As for the instructor position, the Air Force has a term for the modern equivalent: FAIP (First Assignment Instructor Pilot). Only the top 20% of graduating classes get offered that position. Yet in the accumulated / collective wisdom of many USAF pilots over the years, it is generally considered to be a position avoided at all costs. Take that for what you will, but even the movie Top Gun, arguably the largest celebration of air crew instructors ever, doesn't end with graduation - it allows the students to get some (more) operational experience before concluding!

This next item is based on a relatively small sample size of anecdotal evidence - so I could be way off base. That said, another thing I've observed multiple times is that WW2 veterans, with a few exceptions, seem like they are very surprised when they are honored at events. Almost as if they underestimate the significance of their experience because "everyone" participated in the war back then so their experience was framed as "normal" in their own mind. Perhaps nobody in their family took the time to ask them about their experiences, it's hard to say. Yet I've seen the face of more than one veteran light up like a kid at Christmas when they see a crowd hanging on every word of their stories and then give them a standing ovation afterwards. Too often I get the feeling that in all this time, no one had given them any recognition for their accomplishments.

Like the Spartans at Thermopylae or the ships-of-the-line at Trafalgar, there will never again be massed formations of B-17s making contrails in the skies. If we cobbled together all the roughly dozen or so B-17s flying today worldwide, we could barely make a small formation. You witnessed a lot of incredible things firsthand that will never be seen again. Since you fortunately survived the experience in (I assume) good health, that would be a pretty big opportunity cost to have played in a band or to have been an instructor - and you still have time to play music and/or to teach!
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Thank you for your astute observation. I would't change a thing had I to do it over again. While in CTD ( College Training Detachment) at Butler University I had the pleasure of playing in what was thought to be the largest military band of the WWII period. I enjoyed the diversity.

My transition to civilian life went well. I didn't experience the problems so many had. This was a blessing. Regarding recognition, or lack there of, I didn't find that offensive . However, when somebody did comment it was a pleasure to respond. I received the comment "thank you for serving" as recently as a month ago so people do remember and express their feelings.

I did survive in good health and have enjoyed a wonderful walk through life with my wife of 71 years. It couldn't have been better.
 
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billrunnels said:
I did survive in good health and have enjoyed a wonderful walk through life with my wife of 71 years. It couldn't have been better.
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That's all anybody can wish for. Sounds like you really did hit the lottery, Bill...the "life lottery." It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, either. Oh, and our gratitude also goes out to your wife, for turning you into the guy we know today.

I started late in life. Didn't get tamed domesticated married until I was 45 years old, so we probably won't make it 71 years together. But we're going to give it a Hell of a try!



-Irish
 
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ODonovan said:
That's all anybody can wish for. Sounds like you really did hit the lottery, Bill...the "life lottery." It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, either. Oh, and our gratitude also goes out to yoru wife, for turning you into the guy we know today.

I started late in life. Didn't get tamed domesticated married until I was 45 years old, so we probably won't make it 71 years together. But we're going to give it a Hell of a try!



-Irish
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I like your attitude:hello1:
 
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Frost
 
mikewint said:
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Frost
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Beautiful thought
 
Bill believe me as Old Fartdom settles in those kinds of thoughts become quite common. I could have very easily gone to Canada in '63. The way was quite open, many friends urged me to do so, many other were already in Canada and had set up a "Welcome/get Adjusted Center, and the Canadian government was quite friendly to Escapees. Eventually, though no one knew it at the time, all was forgiven and the way to return home was open. What if?? What if?? What if??
 
My Father served in the British Army during WW2 as he was called up (Essex Regiment) he was an infantryman who doubled as a despatch rider. Because he was musical he was offered a place in the Regimental band as a drummer before he was posted overseas. Like you he declined as he believed he should do his duty in active service, and he did; serving in Palestine, North Africa, Italy and NW Europe before being captured late in the War. He never regretted his decision.
 
billrunnels said:
The base bandmaster informed me the band needed a baritone player and he noticed in my file I played one. He tried his best to get me to exit the cadet program and join the band. I was committed and declined his offer. Thinking about it today I would be more inclined to consider the offer. I could have spent long weekends at home, enjoyed Cardinal baseball games. A friend of mine joined the Navy and played in small bands on troop ships. The jewel in his crown was he played trombone in the Navy Band at President Roosevelt's funeral ceremony. Now that would be something to tell your grandchildren about.
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True, but there might very well have been a part of you that wished you had contributed more than just played music.
The second opportunity came within an hour following graduation from Bombardier School. I was paged to report to a major in the headquarter building. He informed me I had scored in the top ten of our class and they wanted me to remain there as an instructor. Learning it was a request rather than an order I declined. What would the future have offered had I stayed. Possibly a post war assignment to a B-29 crew, maybe a career. I wonder.
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However as an actual crew member you did real work.
 
herman1rg said:
My Father served in the British Army during WW2 as he was called up (Essex Regiment) he was an infantryman who doubled as a despatch rider. Because he was musical he was offered a place in the Regimental band as a drummer before he was posted overseas. Like you he declined as he believed he should do his duty in active service, and he did; serving in Palestine, North Africa, Italy and NW Europe before being captured late in the War. He never regretted his decision.
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You can be proud of your father.
 
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