HMS Victory (pre-Nelson ship) found

Discussion in '1800-1914' started by HoHun, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

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  2. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Cool, thanks HoHun!
     
  3. Ferdinand Foch

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    Oh yeah, I heard about this a couple of days ago. Whoa, I did not know that there were other ships named the Victory beside's the one that was Nelson's Flagship. Kinda sad though, heard that it sank in a storm with no survivors (I believe that there was almost a thousand men aboard to, if I'm not mistaken). Anyway, HoHun, thanks for showing this site.
     
  4. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    FF,

    The Royal Navy has, to this day, a thing for repeating names. The list is endless, but as an example, many of the dreadnought BBs that fought at Jutland ( and the pre-dreadnoughts that fought in the Dardanelles)were named after ships that fought at Trafalgar and/or other Napoleonic sea battles. Some names, like Ark Royal, have been in use since the Spanish Armada (1588!). EDIT: Up until very recently (around 2006), there were at least four British warships in service which carried the names of French ships captured as far back as the 18th century. I'm just trying to find my source, will post it when I find it.

    The reason that the name HMS Victory has not been used on another ship is that Nelson's HMS Victory, first commissioned in 1765, is still in commission as the the flagship of the Second Sea Lord, Commander in Chief of the Royal Navy's Home Command (CINCNAVHOME). That's 244 years she has spent in use by the RN, and she is the oldest commissioned warship in the world, although USS Constitution is the oldest still afloat. 8)

    *** HMS Victory commissioning info from Wiki - HMS Victory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ***
     
  5. Ferdinand Foch

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    BT,

    Thanks for the info, forgot about some of that stuff. Tell you the truth, Vassili and I got to see the Victory at Portsmouth a few years back, and I was amazed on how pristine it looked. It looked like it could head back to Trafalgar any day if it wanted too. I mean, I've seen the Constitution too, and that's an awesome ship as well, though I'm pretty sure that the Victory could kick the Constitution's a@@ any day of the week.
     
  6. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    NP Ferdinand 8)

    Victory was almost lost for good, she was used as the Naval School of Telegraphy until about 1904, and by then was in very poor condition. A fund was started to save her, and she was preserved in the 1920s, and subsequently damaged in action by a German bomb in 1940. Wonder if that makes her the oldest warship to be engaged and damaged in combat? :shock:

    I would like to see USS Constitution. The only US warship I have visited is USS North Carolina, that ship knocks our nearest preserved contemporary (HMS Belfast), into a cocked hat! I must also get down to Portsmouth to see Victory again (haven't been in well over a decade), I would also like to see HMS Warrior, as she is the last survivor of her type and era.
     
  7. Ferdinand Foch

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    Really, the Victory was almost lost, holy crap. That would really suck. Don't know if the same thing happened to the Constitution, but I wouldn't put it passed us.

    Yeah, the Constitution is pretty awesome (if you have a chance, you might also want to check out the Constellation down in Baltimore. Its kinda that same thing, but stil pretty interesting).
    Funny, we also saw the Belfast when we were in London. It was great, just wished that the King George IV or the Rodney was preserved too. Hehe, we also have the Massachuetts, the Yorktown, Hornet, Lexington, and I think we have a battleship left over from the Spanish-American War down in Philidelphia, I think (either Olympic, or Olympia). Hope I didn't make you jealous.
    Where is the Warrior? Is it in Portsmouth too, because we saw like a sailing/ironclad there too, and that might have been it.
     
  8. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    Yeah, that was Warrior. The sails were because the Admiralty didn't trust steam power. Ever open to change, they were still insisting on putting sails on battleships as late as the 1880s :rolleyes:

    America does a fantastic job of preserving it's military heritage, last time I was visiting family in NC, we drove up to Va, and visited Richmond, Washington DC and the Petersburg battlefields. Apart from the cemeteries in France and Belgium, we have nothing like it, most people don't even know where any of our Civil War battlefields are, or even that we have had a civil war at all (in fact we have had several).

    Did you get to see the remains of the Mary Rose when you were in Portsmouth? That was another tragic incident in British history that most English people don't even know happened.
     
  9. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bombtaxi, no, unfortunately we didn't see the Mary Rose.

    Yeah, it's pretty cool that Americans preserve our military heritage. I'm still a little p!ssed though that they scrapped the Enterprise, that carrier saw every major action in the pacific theater, we did preserve the Intrepid though, it's on the Hudson in NYC.
     
  10. Ferdinand Foch

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    Oh trust me, Bt, America does its far share of "change" in the military, like rejecting the maxim machine gun when it first came out.
    Wish we saw the mary rose though, went past it, but didn't feel like waiting in the line, we were too damn impatient.
    Speaking of civil war battlefieds, I think down in Gettysburg, they are remodeling the site so that it can look almost exactly like it was during the battle in 1863 (at least I think thats what they are doing, I could be wrong though).
    Hey, I think you guys got us beat with the Imperial War Museum (well, at least it rivals the Smithsonian).
    Sorry to hear that in the UK, battlefield preservation isn't a top priority, that taking away an important part of a people's history. At least I hope that Hastings is still preserved, is it?
     
  11. MacArther

    MacArther Active Member

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    Old Ironsides? Dude, If you go inside, it really shows how much that naval warfare has changed. For instance, I'm like 5'11 and I had to duck while on the gun deck just because of how low the ceilings were. Also, I would hate to be in such a small space, with cannon going off all around, smoke and flame filling the air. Other than what I have mentioned, the USS Constitution is a beautiful ship, VERY well preserved, and still listed as an active ship (If I remember correctly) by the US Navy.
     
  12. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    The Hastings battlefield is under the remains of Battle Abbey, which was constructed just a few years after the battle itself, as a penance for the casualties inflicted by the Normans. The altar supposedly lay on the spot where Harold was killed. Most of it was subsequently destroyed during the Reformation and the dissolution of the monasteries. Perhaps we haven't saved much because we have had so many years to destroy it all!
     
  13. Ferdinand Foch

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    Damn, sorry BT, that really sucks. Don't worry, I'm sure in a few hundred years the U.S. will do something pretty stupid to, we'll just have it on a larger scale.
    Hey, MacArthur, I had the same problem with height, hell my home basement's kinda built the same way, I keep running into pipes. Thank god there wasn't some moron who decided to light a pipe during the middle of a battle, or we'd be looking at the Constitution on the bottom of the ocean floor.
     
  14. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    Correct Mac. "Old Ironsides" is the oldest commissioned ship in the US Navy.

    TO
     
  15. Ferdinand Foch

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    Funny thought, I wonder if the French Navy has a commissioned ship as old as the Victory or the Constitution?
     
  16. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    I would not be so sure of that. USS Constitution did face off against ships of the line who outgunned her on a regular basis. She would use her speed and maneuverability to outfight many ships twice her size. I think the majority of the ships she faced off against in the War of 1812 were just as big if not bigger than her. If my memory serves, she never lost a battle, or was ever boarded in all her years. I do not know the overall sizes of the British ships she fought against, but she often faced off against larger ships.

    The History of USS Constitution
     
  17. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    Generally speaking, American cruisers during the War of 1812 were superior to their Anglo-French counterparts. But Victory is a 104 gun ship of the line, the superdreadnought of her day. Sending Constitution against her would have been suicidal, to say the least. In fact, there was a well-observed rule rule of Napoleonic naval warfare that stated ships of the line like Victory would not fire upon a cruiser unless attacked first, even in a pitched battle. In 99% of cases, cruisers took the opportunity to get out of harm's way.

    Not to do Constitution's record down, you understand, but she was a destroyer to Victory's dreadnought.
     
  18. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    Point taken BT. I'll have to do some reading and research to better educate myself.
     
  19. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    There is some really good stuff about the Napoleonic wars at sea in print. One that immediately springs to mind is 'Sea Warriors' by Richard Woodman, covering the operations of British cruisers between 1797 and 1815. It's written from the British point of view, but is very good and covers quite a lot about the American War of 1812.
     
  20. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 4 volume series waiting to be read covering America's history at sea. I have not started reading it yet, but it is supposed to be a complete history. Might have to be the next book I read.
     
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