I remember reading somewhere (maybe on this site) that the B/C model was superior in performance to the D model (especially the models that had the -7 Merlin). I remember seeing that the climb rate was much better, and it was a little faster. How much better was it, and what else did it do better?
How much better was the P-51 B/C over the D model?
- Thread starter grampi
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drgondog
Major
The only advantage I can see of the P-51B/C airframe was the fact that 400+ more weight for the D in combat load carried slightly lower W/L (for the B) and by virtue of that - slightly higher ROC and Rate of Turn when the HPavail was the Same. For example, stacking a B vs D when both had 1650-7 would provide slightly better maneuverability for the pilot that could exploit the small differences. OTOH, the D had 50% more firepower and better visibility.
Because of the lower WL for the B, it would also have slightly less Induced Drag - but so low as to be negligible except at low speed through Max CL/CD.
Because of the lower WL for the B, it would also have slightly less Induced Drag - but so low as to be negligible except at low speed through Max CL/CD.
drgondog
Major
I agree the general comment but the jamming issues were largely solved by April 1944 by adding electric boost motor to the belt feed
Thanks. Did not know that!
When I visited with Don Blakeslee he told me he could have had another three kills over Berlin on one mission but for the jams...
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
The "fastback" models generally were better than the bubble tops when it came to air racing after the war.
To fit the .50's upright they had to thicken the wing a bit.
Attached is a picture from 23 Mar 1945, a fighter conference at Debden. Note there is a fastback model there, despite the fact that the bubbletops had been available for a full year. Another photo I have that will not scan well shows a group of Mustangs in close formation over Germany after he war was over. And there is fastback with those as well. Some pilots just liked them. Of course I can well understand having an affection for a particular serial number aircraft, having flown the same one since 1989.
To fit the .50's upright they had to thicken the wing a bit.
Attached is a picture from 23 Mar 1945, a fighter conference at Debden. Note there is a fastback model there, despite the fact that the bubbletops had been available for a full year. Another photo I have that will not scan well shows a group of Mustangs in close formation over Germany after he war was over. And there is fastback with those as well. Some pilots just liked them. Of course I can well understand having an affection for a particular serial number aircraft, having flown the same one since 1989.
Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
I read somewhere that an 8th AF aviation mechanic, who trouble shooted the feeding problem of B/C models, used a small brass part taken from Martin B-26s . . . which pretty much eliminated the problem, at least in the ETO.
Col. Clairborne Kinnard ?
This was the meeting for the fighter cover final planning of Operation Varsity next day.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It wasn't really up to the pilot's preference, but rather what was made available.
Otherwise, my Uncle would have flown his P-36 (in the PTO) to war's end.
drgondog
Major
Yes Biff - at that time Lieutenant Colonel Claiborne Holmes Kinnard, Jr. That is the fighter conference the day before the Rhine airborne operation on March 24th. Clay led the first Patrol on the SE flank, dad the second 355th FG mission. No action for the 355th that day.
drgondog
Major
drgondog
Major
The wing/airfoil of the X73, Mustang I, IA, P-51, A-36, P-51A/B/C, P-51D/K was the same - save the LE extension for D-K. The XP-51F/G and J and H departed from the NAA/NACA 45-100. The reason for the canted mount go back to the belt fed Hispano and the A-36 had that mount because 20mm was an armament option that AAF chose not to accept. Dunno why the A/B didn't change, but the P-51D was 'vertical' from day 1.
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
I read that they had to thicken the wing to mount the .50's upright.
And the P-51B/C had the inboard leading extension, which was to allow the larger wheels that accompanied the increase in gross weight.
As for "what was available" do you really think there were no D or K models available in March 1945? They were scrapping new D models in late 1944 because they had no place to park them. Admittedly, that fastback Mustang had no tail color or codes on the side, indicating it was most likely a "hack." But the one in that postwar photo is an operational squadron bird.
And really, a P-36? Did he spend the whole war in Hawaii?
And the P-51B/C had the inboard leading extension, which was to allow the larger wheels that accompanied the increase in gross weight.
As for "what was available" do you really think there were no D or K models available in March 1945? They were scrapping new D models in late 1944 because they had no place to park them. Admittedly, that fastback Mustang had no tail color or codes on the side, indicating it was most likely a "hack." But the one in that postwar photo is an operational squadron bird.
And really, a P-36? Did he spend the whole war in Hawaii?
Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
"What was available," definitely depended on which Theater of war you were in. I read about ETO pilots who preferred the P-51B/C over the "bubble canopy" models. Many of the B/Cs became hand me downs to newer pilots. So the B/Cs were in continuous use until the end of the war. Airframe time would eventually force anything out of service, providing replacement aircraft were available.
Also, there were two Bs in USAF inventory when P-51s became F-51s; as F-51B!
Con't: No 112 Squadron RAF was still flying Mustang III (GA R, P-51B) in 1945, complete with latticed canopies.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
No, but he started the war in Hawaii on 7 December. The types he flew during the war (aside from the P-36) were the P-39 and P-38, the P-38 being the only fighter he saw combat with.
Every pilot has a favorite ride, one they felt completely confident with, regardless of how many types they transition through and it happens that my Uncle's sweetheart was the P-36.
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
I can easily believe he liked the P-36 best of all. By all reports it was a "sports car." I even recall reading about an F6F pilot, trained on the Hellcat, and when he got to the Pacific volunteered to test fly F4F's that came out of refurb. He said it was a "sports car" that was much more fun to fly than the F6F, which in contrast has been compared to a family sedan.
I recall reading of a P-38 pilot who went to the Pacific soon after the airplane first got there and was told by one squadron commander that he was a P-40 man, himself..And even Gerry Johnson, one of the best P-38 pilots around and leader of the squadron that had Dick Bong, used to go fly combat missions with a P-40 unit, just for fun. Another F-51 pilot who flew in Korea said he wished they had P-40's because they were far less vulnerable to ground fire.
Funny thing is, today many of our combat missions against terrorists could be flown just fine by a P-36.
I recall reading of a P-38 pilot who went to the Pacific soon after the airplane first got there and was told by one squadron commander that he was a P-40 man, himself..And even Gerry Johnson, one of the best P-38 pilots around and leader of the squadron that had Dick Bong, used to go fly combat missions with a P-40 unit, just for fun. Another F-51 pilot who flew in Korea said he wished they had P-40's because they were far less vulnerable to ground fire.
Funny thing is, today many of our combat missions against terrorists could be flown just fine by a P-36.
Like in the article mad_max posted above, A lot of pilots have said the razorback Mustang with Malcolm Hood had better rear vision than the bubbletops Mustangs, and they could even look below the plane! The first Malcolm hood US Mustangs were given to formation leaders so they could see who's where.
A trend i've noticed is pilots universally seem to prefer the lighter variants of planes, like Mustang B/C vs D or Me109 F vs G/K, even if later versions did have more HP available. So wing loading makes a plane more pleasant to fly than power loading.
A trend i've noticed is pilots universally seem to prefer the lighter variants of planes, like Mustang B/C vs D or Me109 F vs G/K, even if later versions did have more HP available. So wing loading makes a plane more pleasant to fly than power loading.
