How to prepare Luftwaffe for Barbarossa if accurate intel on Soviet forces?

[Admiral Beez]

The Germans dramatically underestimated the number of aircraft, tanks, artillery and infantry the Soviet Union had in advance of Barbarossa. The Soviets had over 9,000 combat aircraft, 11,000 tanks and almost 3 million soldiers. Furthermore, the Soviets had the ability to produce over 15,000 aircraft and 7,000 tanks in 1941, ramping up to over 24,000 tanks and 25,000 in aircraft 1942. This is vastly larger than the forces the Germans brought to the fight.

Had by Dec 1940 Hitler, the general staff and RLM been fully aware of the size of the Soviet forces and their production capacity once war was declared, how could the Luftwaffe be better prepared for Barbarossa? The RLM and Luftwaffe has six months to sort out a plan. Since it's only in Dec 1940 that the intel is understood, there's not much time to produce more aircraft than what historically was produced. But plans for production into 1941 onwards into 1942-43 can be changed. Perhaps a focus on transport aircraft?

 

[pbehn]

They could try mobilising for war 100% which historically they didn't do until 1942/43. German military strategy as far as the Soviet Union was concerned was based on kicking in a door and hoping the building falls down.

 

[tomo pauk]

Hatchet job needs to be done on: He 177 (and thus on the 'double engines'), Me 210 (and the later 410), Jumo 222, a host of other engine projects at DB and BMW. Make the DB 601N/E powered Fw 190 ASAP and produce it 24/7, later the DB 605 powered version. A long-range fighter version with two drop tanks is needed, Soviet Union is a big place. Shove the BMW 801 on Ju 288A, have Heinkel produce it. Ju-87 gets 2x30mm for tank busting.
Further engine development: 2-stage comprssors for the DB 601/605, Jumo 211, BMW 801 (although a better 1-stage S/C for either of them would've come in handy, even for the needs of Eastern front). Eariler introduction of MW50. Jets as long-term solution.
Make sure your 'small' allies (Hungary, Finland, Romania) receive up to-date aircraft in good numbers, they can pay later. Scour the French air industry, send machine tools to the countries allied to Germany. Granted, Italy also needs any help they can get, so the Germans don't have to intervene that much. Romania needs to increase it's oil production. Import as much of oil from SU as possible. Don't forget training.
Guns: a 'mid-power' 30mm will be needed, in-between the MK 108 and 101/103. A belt-fed MG FFM for the wings of the Bf 109.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hatchet job needs to be done on: He 177 (and thus on the 'double engines'),

This, and any other bomber that can strike the factories on either side of the Caucuses. Fly the long range Luftwaffe strikes from Finland?

What about expanding the Fallschirmjäger?

 

[tomo pauk]

This, and any other bomber that can strike the factories on either side of the Caucuses. Fly the long range Luftwaffe strikes from Finland?

What about expanding the Fallschirmjäger?

"Hatchet job" = cancellation.
Fallschrimjaegers - double-edged sword. I'm not sure what task should they have on the Eastern front, apart from raiding combined with quick retreat. I'd certainly have the Ju-52s replaced by Go-244s that have BMW radials installed.

 

[Denniss]

they need stratecig bombers. It's alwas easier to hit larger targets making tanks/aircraft then kill them one after on the battlefield.
The summer 43 raids on Gorky did a lot of damage, causing production losses of hundreds of tanks/aircraft and armored car/truck components. and these raids were made with limited numbers of He 111/Ju 88. Imagine what a properly working He 177 could have done (2-engine version but wihout dive-bombing requirement thus airframe just stressed/optimized for glide bombing)

 

[tomo pauk]

This is why I've suggested the Ju 288 powered by BMW 801s - the bomb bay is of decent size so the bombs are not hanged out in the breeze (thus benefiting both speed and range), and it should work with just two engines.

Further on the technicalities. LW's job were the Flak guns, and in such a big war over the big territory they will need as big a bang for the buck. The automatic 37mm was among the weakest in the category. So I'd suggest making an automatic Flak around the Navy's powerful 37mm cartridge (735 g shell @ 1000 ms vs. 640g @ 820 ms). Even 'downloaded' to 900 m/s with 735 g shell it should improve the chance to hit and chance to kill on the last kilometer.
(yes, forget the 5cm Flak)
2cm - it was great with 4 barrels and at short range. I'd suggest introduction of a 2-barreled 3cm weapon to be mounted on the 'Flakvierling' (4-barreled Flak) mounting. Both effective range and target effect should be greatly improved, both against aerial and ground targets.

 

[Glider]

These are all good ideas, some of which I would take a different view on. However the biggest problem the Luftwaffe had wasn't in their remit to address, and that was the infrastructure to support their needs and the needs of the Army.
Yes the Germans massively underestimated the scale of the Russian forces both on land and in the air, but they still came to a hairs breadth of winning. Better infrastructure and logistical planning would have easily made the difference and the world would be a very different place today.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Hatchet job needs to be done on: He 177 (and thus on the 'double engines'), Me 210 (and the later 410), Jumo 222, a host of other engine projects at DB and BMW. Make the DB 601N/E powered Fw 190 ASAP and produce it 24/7, later the DB 605 powered version. A long-range fighter version with two drop tanks is needed, Soviet Union is a big place. Shove the BMW 801 on Ju 288A, have Heinkel produce it. Ju-87 gets 2x30mm for tank busting.
Further engine development: 2-stage comprssors for the DB 601/605, Jumo 211, BMW 801 (although a better 1-stage S/C for either of them would've come in handy, even for the needs of Eastern front). Eariler introduction of MW50. Jets as long-term solution.
Make sure your 'small' allies (Hungary, Finland, Romania) receive up to-date aircraft in good numbers, they can pay later. Scour the French air industry, send machine tools to the countries allied to Germany. Granted, Italy also needs any help they can get, so the Germans don't have to intervene that much. Romania needs to increase it's oil production. Import as much of oil from SU as possible. Don't forget training.
Guns: a 'mid-power' 30mm will be needed, in-between the MK 108 and 101/103. A belt-fed MG FFM for the wings of the Bf 109.

Why would you put DB601 on Fw190?

 

[tomo pauk]

Why would you put DB601 on Fw190?

So I can have much more of useful fighters & fighter-bombers than it was historically so.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

So I can have much more of useful fighters & fighter-bombers than it was historically so.

Wouldn't that only help with high altitude performance? And with less horse power too.

 

[tomo pauk]

Wouldn't that only help with high altitude performance? And with less horse power too.

Benefits vs. BMW 801 powered Fw 190: more reliable engines, less weight & drag (counter-ballances the power decrease), lower fuel consupmtion for better mileage and range. The Fw 190 entered service in the East a full year vs. the service in the West, that is a major thing the DB 601N/E engine choice can change, since I've also suggested axing of the He 177 and Me 210. The strong points of the Fw 190 (rate of roll, cockpit, undercarriage, more generous internal volume for fuel/guns/ammo) still remain.

 

[Denniss]

insufficient DB 601 engines will prevent that plan + Fw 190 with big radial in front was better as fighter-bomber. Plus vs Soviets you won't need high-alt engines except for recons.
Ju 288 with 801 engine lacks massive in engine power unless you install 4 of them.
Wehrmacht should have jumped on the 40mm Bofors train instead of relying on the german 37mm guns, lacking RoF and ceiling. I assume industrial lobby would have worked against such a plan.

 

[tomo pauk]

insufficient DB 601 engines will prevent that plan + Fw 190 with big radial in front was better as fighter-bomber. Plus vs Soviets you won't need high-alt engines except for recons.

Addressed above:

Hatchet job needs to be done on: He 177 (and thus on the 'double engines'), Me 210 (and the later 410), Jumo 222, a host of other engine projects at DB and BMW.

There was thousands of engines there to spare without the need for DB 606 and 610. DB 601/605 were not hi-alt engines (not that advantage in altitude power is a bad thing).

Ju 288 with 801 engine lacks massive in engine power unless you install 4 of them.

Ju 288 with BMW 801 should be far better bomber than He 111 or Ju 88. I'm not aiming at 640km/h bomber, 600 km/h will do it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

How about Luftwaffe deployments in advance of Barbarossa? The Luftwaffe bombing raids on Britain continued into mid-May 1941. This seems crazy given that Sealion was canceled and the invasion of USSR was about to begin. Then there's the Luftwaffe units diverted to North Africa and Greece through late 1940 and early 1941 onwards. Maybe let Mussolini fight his own war in Greece and North Africa? If he loses in either it's no difference to Barbarossa.

 

[Shortround6]

It is about 680 miles from Crete to Ploiesti and about 500 miles from Athens to Ploiesti. Under 300 miles from Northern Greece to Ploiesti.

 

[TheMadPenguin]

It is about 680 miles from Crete to Ploiesti and about 500 miles from Athens to Ploiesti. Under 300 miles from Northern Greece to Ploiesti.

So, have "allies" (Hungary, Roumania) team with Italy to take on Greece and UK.
Wehrmacht Army Groups North and Center focus on getting to Leningrad, turning right, and then driving to Moscow to winter there. Army group South (which sent 1/3 strength with North & Center) plays Sitzkrieg with Soviet forces in Ukraine until Spring 42.
LW's job is to team with the Wehrmacht in the drive to Leningrad, meaning to accomplish Poland-style Blitz against Soviet forces North of Pripyat swamp and to destroy VVS wherever in reach throughout Soviet space.

 

[pbehn]

How about Luftwaffe deployments in advance of Barbarossa? The Luftwaffe bombing raids on Britain continued into mid-May 1941. This seems crazy given that Sealion was canceled and the invasion of USSR was about to begin. Then there's the Luftwaffe units diverted to North Africa and Greece through late 1940 and early 1941 onwards. Maybe let Mussolini fight his own war in Greece and North Africa? If he loses in either it's no difference to Barbarossa.

This goes to the heart of the whole thing. Let Mussolini fight alone in Africa and Greece and Italy may lose and change sides very quickly. Hitler could forget any thought of attacking UK and attack Malta and Crete immediately but that is an admission that he isn't ready for war and wont impress anyone to join his Axis. You can march into Germany from Greece just as easily as you can from Italy. Hitler had to secure the Balkans before Barbarossa or he has his second front there before he invades Russia. It wasnt just the LW that were tied down in Greece, North Africa and Italy, so were a lot of tanks and soldiers. The Germans were so concerned about a landing in Greece that they withdrew 3 panzer divisions from the eastern front around the time of the battle of Kursk, this is what Operation Mincemeat was about, would the allies land in Greece or Italy. Operation Mincemeat. By October 1942 wiki says this "Despite the success of Allied convoys in getting through, the month was as bad as any other, combining bombing with food shortages. In response to the threat Malta was now posing to Axis supply lines, the Luftwaffe renewed its attacks on Malta in October 1942. Recognising the critical battle was approaching in North Africa (Second Battle of El Alamein), Kesselring organised Fliegerkorps II in Sicily to neutralise the threat once and for all.[184] On 11 October, the defenders were mass equipped with Spitfire Mk VB/Cs. Over 17 days, the Luftwaffe suffered 34 Ju 88s and 12 Bf 109s destroyed and 18 damaged. RAF losses amounted to 23 Spitfires shot down and 20 crash-landed. The British lost 12 pilots killed.[185] On 16 October, it was clear to Kesselring that the defenders were too strong. He called off the offensive. The situation in North Africa required German air support, so the October offensive marked the last major effort by the Luftwaffe against Malta.[186]"

Malta was vital to the whole North Africa and Mediterranean campaign, only a fraction of Rommels supplies were getting through, so because the LW couldn't accept losses of two bombers per day and a fighter every two days the action was halted and Adolf lost almost everything that had been sent to N Africa where 275,000 surrendered in 1943. Germany just didn't have enough stuff to do what Adolf wanted.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Would any of the Ural bomber still be adequate in 1941?

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

So, have "allies" (Hungary, Roumania) team with Italy to take on Greece and UK.
Wehrmacht Army Groups North and Center focus on getting to Leningrad, turning right, and then driving to Moscow to winter there. Army group South (which sent 1/3 strength with North & Center) plays Sitzkrieg with Soviet forces in Ukraine until Spring 42.
LW's job is to team with the Wehrmacht in the drive to Leningrad, meaning to accomplish Poland-style Blitz against Soviet forces North of Pripyat swamp and to destroy VVS wherever in reach throughout Soviet space.

Only Bulgaria would agree to that,the rest have no reason to fight Greece.