How was the Japanese evaluation of the P-40?

[Jenisch]

I know the Japanese captured P-40's, and even had the aircraft operational in combat service. However I was wondering what was their conclusion in regard to the aircraft compared to the Zero and the Ki-43. Anyone has information about this?

 

[buffnut453]

Dunno but I'd be interested to learn about their assessments of the Buffalo and other aircraft (B-17, B-10, Hurricane etc).

 

[Greyman]

Sergeant Yoshito Yasuda (64th Sentai):
The Hurricane was a unique plane with twelve 7.7mm machine guns which caused deadly damage if we were shot from behind. Its diving speed was much faster than the 01 Fighter. Therefore, when we fought with Hurricanes we attempted to counter its firepower with the better manoeuvrability of the 01 and tried to hit its radiator, bringing the engine to a stop. Even with the poor firepower of the 01, Hurricanes could be shot down merely by a hole in the radiator.

 

[varsity07840]

I know the Japanese captured P-40's, and even had the aircraft operational in combat service. However I was wondering what was their conclusion in regard to the aircraft compared to the Zero and the Ki-43. Anyone has information about this?

I may be in the minority, but I believe that Japanese use of captured P-40s for combat operations is a myth.

 

[GrauGeist]

I may be in the minority, but I believe that Japanese use of captured P-40s for combat operations is a myth.

There are Japanese records that do confirm for a short while, captured P-40s were used in the far east.

A quote from Japanese aviation historian, Osamu Tagaya:
"In total, the Japanese appear to have had as many as ten flyable P-40Es. For a brief period, during 1943, a few of them were actually used operationally by the 50th Hiko Sentai in the defense of Rangoon. Testimony to this fact is given by Yasuhiko Kuroe (64th Hiko Sentai) in his memoirs, in which he says one Japanese Warhawk shot down a friendly 'Sally' over Rangoon by mistake!"

There are other bits of information that confirm this, like from the RAF Public File Records - FileAir 40/2172 had a translation of a captured diary of a mechanic assigned to the 12th Sentai. The diary recorded the following entry for March 11, 1943, when the mechanic was at Alor Star in Malaya:
"At noon a formation of 3 P-40s flew over and landed. They are being moved by air as part of a new chutai [shotai ?] which is beingformed to take part in the Burma operations. The 50th Hikosentai mark was on them."

 

[pinehilljoe]

The Japanese using captured planes operationally gives you an idea of their shortages, as early as 1943. Interesting

 

[michaelmaltby]

"...gives you an idea of their shortages"

No big deal here, really, everybody uses everybody else's stuff when push comes to shove. T-34s crewed by Germans at Kursk. Churchill flying in a Storch.

 

[GrauGeist]

"...gives you an idea of their shortages"

No big deal here, really, everybody uses everybody else's stuff when push comes to shove. T-34s crewed by Germans at Kursk. Churchill flying in a Storch.

Agreed.

The P-40 was rugged and capable and the Japanese had them in numbers, so why not?

The Germans used captured foreign aircraft for various purposes like the French built NA-64 in a trainer capacity. They used the Czech Avia B-534 as a trainer at their A/B Schule and Jagdfleigerschule. There was also the Moraine-Saulnier MS.406 that was pressed into service as a trainer that served alongside the older Bf109 types which had been retired from front line service. Then there was the Gloster Gladiator Mk.1 captured from the Latvians at the start of the war which served with the Luftwaffe as a target tug nearly until war's end.

As far as foreign types used by the Luftwaffe in combat, the Dewoitine D.520C was actually used by JG101 (Nancy - France), JG103 (Zeltweg - Austria) and JG105 (Le Bourget/Chartres - France). Some were still in service as late as 1944 with JG103 which was in Brussels by that time.

Not surprising, the Germans also had several Italian types in use after the Italians surrendered in 1943. Of those, only the MC.205 was used in combat

 

[michaelmaltby]

.... only the Americans didn't follow this trend .... but they had the British as allies and they adopted their stuff and considered it foreign ...

 

[GrauGeist]

Anything that's built by Metric specifications is foreign!!

 

[Shinpachi]

I have ever heard that some IJA soldiers loved the M1 Garand.

 

[michaelmaltby]

why not .... ammunition would be generously available, IIUC ....

The German picked up Soviet machine pistols and used them widely.

 

[Shinpachi]

Schoolmaster of the IJA Utsunomiya Flight School, Major General Toshio Kato, flew a Brewster Buffalo as his exclusive plane.

 

[buffnut453]

There was a Japanese language book about captured Allied aircraft which appeared to have some details on the Buffalo's performance. Details of captured Allied aircraft were also published in Japanese aviation magazines during WWII. Alas, I've been unable to translate either source effectively.

 

[buffnut453]

Schoolmaster of the IJA Utsunomiya Flight School, Major General Toshio Kato, flew a Brewster Buffalo as his exclusive plane.

View attachment 361306

Thanks Shinpachi. I hadn't heard that before. Sounds very interesting. Did he leave any records or accounts of his experiences?

 

[Marcel]

Agreed.

The P-40 was rugged and capable and the Japanese had them in numbers, so why not?

The Germans used captured foreign aircraft for various purposes like the French built NA-64 in a trainer capacity. They used the Czech Avia B-534 as a trainer at their A/B Schule and Jagdfleigerschule. There was also the Moraine-Saulnier MS.406 that was pressed into service as a trainer that served alongside the older Bf109 types which had been retired from front line service. Then there was the Gloster Gladiator Mk.1 captured from the Latvians at the start of the war which served with the Luftwaffe as a target tug nearly until war's end.

As far as foreign types used by the Luftwaffe in combat, the Dewoitine D.520C was actually used by JG101 (Nancy - France), JG103 (Zeltweg - Austria) and JG105 (Le Bourget/Chartres - France). Some were still in service as late as 1944 with JG103 which was in Brussels by that time.

Not surprising, the Germans also had several Italian types in use after the Italians surrendered in 1943. Of those, only the MC.205 was used in combat

An don't forget the 100+ Fokker G.1's that flew in German service.

 

[airminded88]

It is my understanding that captured B-17s and B-24s found usage with the LW hauling materials across undisputed air corridors within the Third Reich and also shadowing 8th bomber streams for altitude and speed data gathering purposes.

 

[Denniss]

JG 10x were school units - were they really used in combat ?

 

[Jenisch]

There was a Japanese language book about captured Allied aircraft which appeared to have some details on the Buffalo's performance. Details of captured Allied aircraft were also published in Japanese aviation magazines during WWII. Alas, I've been unable to translate either source effectively.

I have remembered that in Jiro Horikoshi's Eagles of Mitubishi book about the development of the Zero (translated into English by the way), he mentions the P-40 as an outdated design he didn't worry much about. According to Horikoshi, the Zero had about the same speed as the P-40, and only outclassed it in a dive. This surprised me, because as far as I know the 1941 P-40E was already quite faster in level flight than the Zero.

BTW: given the comments Horikoshi made about the P-40 (and the P-36 also), could the Japanese have already know technical informations of the P-40 and other aircraft by obtaining performance data from manufactures in regard to export models? By the early 1940s, due to deteriorating relations with the West, I think perhaps the Japanese not be able to obtain this information directly by themselves, but could they have used another country to obtain them?

 

[Shinpachi]

Where there is a will, there is a way.
Performance list of the U.S. aircraft published in 1943.