If Axis aircraft swap theater?

[Nodeo-Franvier]

What do you think would happen if LW operate Japanese plane and vice versa.
Personally I think late war Japanese fighter with their relatively bad high altitude performance wouldn't be able to stop the allies bombing very well,And most German aircraft would lack the range necessary for the pacific war but would perform well in China.
The LW could also use Japanese torpedo bomber.

 

[swampyankee]

No Pearl Harbor, for one (no German carrier aircraft). No fighters staging from the Formosa to attack the Philippines (German fighters had less range).

 

[tomo pauk]

What do you think would happen if LW operate Japanese plane and vice versa.
...

Starting from when?

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Starting from when?

After the introduction of A5M(1935),before that the Japanese aviation was quite unremarkable in my opinion.

 

[tomo pauk]

Germans still win against Poland, Denmark and Norway, even if their victories take a bit more time - using the Japanese bombers probably halves the bombload vs. what Germans had. The main grinding comes from May 1940 on - neither Ki-27 nor A5M offer much of performance, Hurricane, D.520 and Hawk 75 come out as over-performers, by a good margin. Japanese have problems in stopping the Anglo-French bombers because of lousy armament and low performance of the former. Not sure how the airborne assault develops vs. Holland. German bombers fly without armor and s-s tanks - not good for them.

France might hold in 1940, unless the German army can pull a few miracles beyond what they already did. If France holds, Germans don't capture fuel there (fuel stocks are hurt), there is no rest & refit in Autumn, Winter and Spring. LW pilots that are captured in France do not return to Germany. No Operation Barbarossa.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Germans still win against Poland, Denmark and Norway, even if their victories take a bit more time - using the Japanese bombers probably halves the bombload vs. what Germans had. The main grinding comes from May 1940 on - neither Ki-27 nor A5M offer much of performance, Hurricane, D.520 and Hawk 75 come out as over-performers, by a good margin. Japanese have problems in stopping the Anglo-French bombers because of lousy armament and low performance of the former. Not sure how the airborne assault develops vs. Holland. German bombers fly without armor and s-s tanks - not good for them.

France might hold in 1940, unless the German army can pull a few miracles beyond what they already did. If France holds, Germans don't capture fuel there (fuel stocks are hurt), there is no rest & refit in Autumn, Winter and Spring. LW pilots that are captured in France do not return to Germany. No Operation Barbarossa.

What about mid and late war designs.

 

[tomo pauk]

What about mid and late war designs.

German fighters were better performers. Japanese recons were better (although Spitfires, P-47s, Tempest and Merlin Mustangs should have no problems vs. Ki-46 or the Saiun). Soviets might like the disappearance of the Bf 109 and Fw 190. Ditto for no tankbusting aircraft (unless we allow for guns' swapping).
Japanese bombers were fast-ish, still easy job for Spitfire V and on. Soviets will find the proper job for the Spitfires and P-47s they received.
Main thing might be the lack of night fighting ability, again unless we allow for German bits & pieces to be installed for Luftwaffe.

OTOH - Japan gains with German fighters in performance department, looses on range. Double drop tank installation is mandatory. German bombers in Japanese hands are toast for P-40s already. Me 262 makes things interesting for the B-29s during the day. Not sure that German NFs were able to catch the B-29.

 

[swampyankee]

Considering how many aircraft performed much better against Japanese vs German aircraft in the war, I suspect things would go worse* for Japan, partly because Japan's naval air arm would no longer exist, but also several aircraft that struggled against Japanese aircraft did quite well in Europe.

Germany may not do better, but Japan cannot attack Pearl Harbor, NEI, Phillipines...


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* Japan may still get the US involved directly, but not so vehemently.

 

[tomo pauk]

Considering how many aircraft performed much better against Japanese vs German aircraft in the war, I suspect things would go worse* for Japan, partly because Japan's naval air arm would no longer exist, but also several aircraft that struggled against Japanese aircraft did quite well in Europe.

Germany may not do better, but Japan cannot attack Pearl Harbor, NEI, Phillipines...
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* Japan may still get the US involved directly, but not so vehemently.

With Bf 109T, Ju 87C and/or Fi-167 in use, we can expect that Japanese still do the attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

With G4M and G3M range the Germans would be able to attack any target in the British isles,that would hamper British war production quite a bit and cause chaos amongst civilian in the countryside.

 

[tomo pauk]

With G4M and G3M range the Germans would be able to attack any target in the British isles,that would hamper British war production quite a bit and cause chaos amongst civilian in the countryside.

RAF is still there, it was beating He 111s handsomely.

 

[Glider]

With Bf 109T, Ju 87C and/or Fi-167 in use, we can expect that Japanese still do the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I'm not so sure as their range is so much less when compared to the Japanese aircraft. The risk would be considerably higher.

With G4M and G3M range the Germans would be able to attack any target in the British isles, that would hamper British war production quite a bit and cause chaos amongst civilian in the countryside.

On the other hand the payload of the Japanese bombers is small even by early war standards and with their very poor protection, the 8 x LMG carried by the RAF fighters is lethal.

 

[tomo pauk]

I'm not so sure as their range is so much less when compared to the Japanese aircraft. The risk would be considerably higher.

A non-perfect naval arm is still far cry vs. the "Japan's naval air arm would no longer exist", as suggested above.

 

[Glider]

A non-perfect naval arm is still far cry vs. the "Japan's naval air arm would no longer exist", as suggested above.

fair point

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Japanese fighters are decidedly underarmed. Battle of Britain with A5M armed with two machine guns vs. RAF fighters armed with eight? Not to mention the open canopies and lack of heater when flying over the Channel and North Sea.

A Luftwaffe armed with Ki-27 and A5M will have trouble against Poland and France, let alone the RAF.

 

[Dimlee]

Ar 234 in Japan... As a recon since June 1944 and as a bomber since November 1944.
Could it break through the US Navy AAA screen, I wonder?

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

The Japanese fighters are decidedly underarmed. Battle of Britain with A5M armed with two machine guns vs. RAF fighters armed with eight? Not to mention the open canopies and lack of heater when flying over the Channel and North Sea.

A Luftwaffe armed with Ki-27 and A5M will have trouble against Poland and France, let alone the RAF.

By that time A6M with 20mm cannon would already be introduced and how can PZL 11 stand up to Japanese monoplane, Ki-27 is also superior in performance to the most numerous French fighter(M.S.406).

 

[GrauGeist]

Personally I think late war Japanese fighter with their relatively bad high altitude performance wouldn't be able to stop the allies bombing very well

May wish to rethink that.
N1K1-J - service ceiling 39,000 feet
KI-100 - service ceiling 36,000 feet
J2M - service ceiling 38,000 feet
KI-84 - service ceiling 39,000 feet

Then the heavy fighters:
KI-102 - service ceiling 33,000 feet
KI-45 - service ceiling 33,000 feet
KI-46-III - service ceiling 35,000 feet
J1N1 - service ceiling 31,000 feet

 

[PAT303]

With G4M and G3M range the Germans would be able to attack any target in the British isles,that would hamper British war production quite a bit and cause chaos amongst civilian in the countryside.

.303 incendiary was approx 50% effective against armored fuel tanks, against unarmored ones much higher, having the range to attack across the British Isles means more time for more fighter groups to attack, the German bomber crews were already fed up with the losses they were suffering, how do you think they are going to feel flying bombers with no protection at all even further across England.

 

[PAT303]

would lack the range necessary

You have to remember that the Japanese aircraft got their range from flying very slowly at low altitude across wide expanses of ocean or impenetrable jungle, crossing the channel into RAF controlled airspace at 130mph at 8,000ft is not going to make you many friends.