Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31

[Jamoliva]

Hello there!

I am trying to find out the color scheme under the temporary winter camouflage for Lieutenant Federov's Yak-9T during winter 43-44 in 812nd IAP. Was it the early or late pattern? Because of the date both seems to be appropriate.

According to the drawings from the Aviamaster magazine from 1996, it seems that the aircraft had early pattern, AMT-4/6.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/books/books1/fydorov3_b.jpg

However, according to another profile by Rusetski, it seems to have the late pattern, AMT-11/12.
http://www.airaces.narod.ru/all2/fedor_i5.jpg

Please let me know which one, you think, is likely to be more accurate.

Best,

CZ

 

[at6]

I would say go with whatever feels right.

 

[Wurger]

Firstly the number of the squadron is wrong and it should be 812th IAP.

About the camo colours... I would say the date is of no importance rather. More important is if it was the Yak-9T of the early plane or late. The late camo was introduced in the mid of the 1943. By that time the factory no.153 managed to make about 400 Yak-9Ts. It seems that all late planes wore the dark grey/ blue grey camo. A note though .. the AMT-11 and 12 colours were used for painting of fabric and wooden skin while the metal covering was doped with the A-32M and A-33M paints. Well.. if it was the very early Yak-9T it could be of the Green/Black camo. Then the white for the winter uniform would be very likely. But if it was the later plane it should be of the grey camo.
Also it should be mentioned that the Yak-9T wasn't the base equipment for the entire regiment/unit rather. Usually a such squadron was a mix of Yak-9Ts and lighter variants of the Yak, for instance Yak-9 used for protection of the heave fighters. So a pic of the kite would be very useful for it's correct ID.

 

[Wurger]

Here is the only pic I found showing the Yak-9T of the 812th IAP in 1944. Not of great quality but it's enough to note that the plane is quite light what indicates the faded grey colours applied . Also I found info that at the begining of the September 1943 the unit started servicing with the 8th VA in Ukraine and was already armed with Yak-9 and Yak-9T. The soviet source doesn't mention the accurate date of getting of these planes by the regiment but it seems it could be in the August. If it would be at that time the new colourse were already introduced and the new planes were painted with them.

 

[Jamoliva]

Thank you Wurger! Yes, it was a typo. I will fix it.
You are also right about the colors. I meant to say green/black versus grey/grey scheme. I did not find any photos unfortunately. However it seems that 812-IAP had Yak-9Ts in the Fall 43 and some were in green/black camo. The only (sketchy) evidence is Mashenkin's aircraft but of course there are no clear photos (He is also in the photo you posted above). The Aviamaster magazine drawing is the one that confuses me the most. Otherwise I'd do it in greys and cover it with white on top.

These are the websites where I mainly got the info on Federov:
Фёдоров Иван Васильевич - Советские асы. Герои воздушных войн 1936-1953 гг.
Фёдоров Иван Васильевич - военный летчик ВВС СССР Герой Советского Союза - Красные соколы. Русские авиаторы летчики-асы 1914-1953

 

[Wurger]

Yep I saw these sites too. And as I said it earlier... all depended on the variant of the Yak-9 and if these were brand new or obtained from another squadron. The early series of the plane had made before the July 1943 could wear the Green/Black camo. Those made later wore the grey one rather. Also please note that most of profiles there show the Yak1B and these were of the green/black colours in 1943.

 

[Wurger]

Just I have checked on another russian book about Yak-9. And I found there an interesting info.. because the mass production of the Yak-9 started in 1943 , the small number of planes wearing the old camo ( green/black ) was sent to regiments. The standard camo was the Dark Grey/Blue Grey scheme. Additionally, in the winter 1943/44 the Air Marshal A.A.Novikov ordered not to apply the white colour on all fighter planes wearing the new camo.
It follows from the foregoing that if there was the washable white applied the plane had to be of the old camo. However the Yak-9T was introduced a little bit later than the Yak-9 and this is the reason I would say the camo should be of the grey scheme. Also my first thought while looking at the profile with the winter camo over the grey one was it's incorrect if there would be the white the main camo should be the green/black one.

 

[Jamoliva]

Thank you very much again! I am not sure what to do. There are some other Yak-9T profiles from Fall 1943 with green/black camo. Listed pilots are Popov, Morozov or Kibkalov, Orlov, and Konovalov in addition to Mashenkin. Of course lack of photographs is problematic.

This one is interesting: Dragonspg59 — Postimage.org
And this photo: Антология Як

 

[Wurger]

To be honest these profiles of the Yak9T with the green/black camo could be a quess only, IMHO. As a base for them could have been used images of a Yak-9T taken during its tests by the NII VVS in 1943. Also, a strong belief that the green/black camo was used for all planes made in 1943 could be the reason for..
As you may notice the camo of the plane is quite dark what can suggest these G/B colours. I would say it is incorrect and the camo could be of the DG/BG either . .

The dark tone of the camo seems to be a light trick because the camouflage was just freshly applied. Here is another pic of the same plane but taken from different angle. The camo doesn't seem to be as dark as it looks in pics above..

Here is a shot of a Yak-9T dated 1944. It is almost sure her camo was of the DG/BG colours but more faded .. I would say.

Here you are a shot of assembling Yak9T at the Factory no.153. Unfortunately the pic isn't dated but the camo of the kite looks like the grey paints were used. The next image shows the Yak-9Ts at a polar airfield. You may notice their very light tone although the one in the background seems to be darker. I would say it is caused by the snow and sunlight reflection.

The main trouble is that too many pics of Yak-9 aren't dated. Here you are pics that the russian sources date 1943. The first one shows Yak-9 at Leningrad area ( almost sure these are of the grey camo but not sure if it is 1943 ) and the second shot is dated the end of the winter 1943. I think the image can be interesting because the plane with the number 930 is wearing the grey camo I believe, while the one with the 935 number seems to be very dark. But it may be the same light trick you can see in the pic above. I mean the snow and the sunlight reflecting. Secondly if the plane would be of the G/B camo she should be painted white for the winter period. Of course, it might be the qulity of the scan. If you have a look at the forest in the background you may agree with that.

To sum up ... IMHO, in so far as there could have been Yak-9s with the green/black como, the Yak-9Ts seem to be of the grey uniform only and according to the Marshal's order no white for them in winter. What is more one of russian books for Yaks mentions that these grey colours could be obtained initially by mixing of the AMT-7 and AMT-6 paints. In the case the Dark Green and the Blue Grey colours could be of different tinges than the late AMT-11 and AMT12 giving a different effect in B&W pics.. However, there might have been Yak-9Ts of the earliest series that had been made by the mid of 1943 and painted as those early Yak-9s with the Green/Black colours.. Because there is no reference confirming the G/B camo for Yak-9T .. it is up to you only if you use colours of the early camo or not. Just my opinion.

 

[Jamoliva]

Thank you very much for the detailed response!

 

[Wurger]

You are welcome.

 

[fubar57]

Great stuff Wojtek