Japanese perspective

[GrauGeist]

Whenever a nation is under threat, they will tend to close ranks and try to reject the outsider. A more recent example of that is the Second Gulf War, where Iraq was invaded and the predictions (usually by hawkish neocons) was that the Iraqi people would strew roses, vs IEDs in the path of US forces.

Actually, the Iraqi citizens were happy to be free of Hussein's long and painful oppression. The Iraqi people themselves weren't any more trouble than the Japanese citizens or the German citizens post-war.

Unlike the post-war occupation of Japan or Germany, however, is that sectarian violence broke out with an insurgency whose ranks were swelled by, and composed mostly of, foreign fighters.

So the "neocon" (as you put it) assertion that the Iraqi civilian population would welcome the "invaders" was actually correct. Just as MacArther had predicted that the Japanese civilian population would be civil and orderly post-war, and they were.

 

[Shinpachi]

Please let me leave the following report to understand the mutual perspectives better.

*****************************************************************************************************

Confidential Extra
Date: September 13, 1945
To: Interior Minister Iwao Yamazaki
From: Governor of Kanagawa Prefecture Takao Fujiwara

Subject: The matter on the behavior of an interpreter for the Allied
Interpreter: Kiyoshi Nagai
Status: The 5th factory's Supervisor of Mitutoyo Manufacture
160 Mizonokuchi, Kawasaki City


The above mentioned man was engaged as an interpreter at Takatsu Police Station of the prefecture on the 2nd of this month and attended Lt Col Mabie of the 511th Parachute Infantry of 11th Airborne Division of the 8th U.S. Army from the 3rd to the 8th. As he left his note in the station regarding conversation with Lt Col Mabie and other U.S. Army officers during the period, I humbly report for Your Excellency's references herewith.

Note
====

U.S. officer
Currently, U.S. Army sees all Japanese people militarists. A typical person among them is Mitsuru Toyama (*1855-1944) of Black Dragon Society. Where is he now?

Nagai
He already died.

U.S. officer
Who succeeded him?

Nagai
I don't know.

U.S. officer
We must eliminate all military personnel from Japan anyway. Japanese grudge against the United States will not go away unless we correct the people's idea like His Majesty is God which has been fostered for many years.

Nagai
I understand that is your thought. Please let me explain our thought too. We believe Japanese are made up of a large family holding His Majesty its head and his family is also the head family to worship His Majesty as God naturally. Japanese people worship the nature and the nature is our religion. Because of this religion, once the cease-fire order has been issued by His Majesty, we comply with it even when we are ready to fight for more two or three years. Now that your occupation resulted in success with few troubles, please be aware that disorder would be inevitable absolutely if you should destroy what we hold in reverence. Our religion is different from yours but your occupation this time succeeded due to this religion. If you should annihilate it, communists will try to control this country and you are to see more extreme communits here than in Russia. Is not it the United States that holds the most wealth in the world and may suffer the maximum damage from our disorder?

One bigoted officer did not agree with above explanation but all others. "Nagai says it's religion. It's thankful our occupation completed in peace no matter what religion it may be, isn't it? " They concluded the present Japanese family national polity religion had better be left as it was.

U.S. officer
What we wonder and feel weird is why Japanese who fought bravely has allowed such a peaceful occupation like this.

Nagai
You wonder because you see only the half side of Japanese Bushido. In Bushido, we fight bravely when we have to fight but accept defeat frankly when lost.
This is Bushido little known to you.

U.S. officer
We U.S. Army makes any country we go better.

Nagai
It is easy to be idealistic after victory but harder not to lose the gentlemanly attitude after defeat. I hope you understand this and correspond to Japanese with justice.

U.S. officer
We paratroopers had 3,000 at first but it's 200 now. We pledged vengeance in their homeland but now we see Japanese who are totally different from those we saw in the battlefields. In their obedience, We are surprised how peaceful they are!

Nagai
That is because your goverment taught its people 'Japanese are a brutal race' in order to lift hostility and they believed it. Japanese are originally a gentle people.

U.S. officer
We want to meet with Tokyo Rose by all means as we were comforted a lot by her. Where is she?

Nagai
I do not know Tokyo Rose who.

U.S. officer
Japanese are cruel to the prisoners of war. Death March by General Yamashita is famous. Japan owes resentments to the United States and Britain.
It is telling how Japanese abused them that a man of as heavy as 200 pounds has lost his weight to 100 pounds.

Nagai
It is unbelievable for me that Japanese abused prisoners. Was there anyone who hit even a pebble against them during march?
Generally, Japan is in lack of food, especially meat. Even milk was not available. Prisoners could have received ration as much as we civilians did.
It is no wonder that they who had good nutrition till then lost weight when even most of Japanese were losing 50 to 100 pounds.

U.S. officer
That may be so.

U.S. officer
We are unable to request you the comfort recreational facilities for us. That is because our ladies in back home are squeamish.
Black soldiers are realists. If you are willing to provide us with these facilities, our MPs are ready to cooperate, if necessary, to prevent troubles there.
Occupation period by our army will be 3 years at longest if no accidents but may be 10 or 15 years if accidents should happen.


**************************************************************************************************

Original data source writen in Japanese: Foreign Affairs Confidential Extra edition relating to the speech and behavior of interpreters to Allied Forces
[Hierarchy]National Archives of Japan＞Public Records Restituted from the United States＞Public Records Restituted from the United States (Records of the former Ministry of the Interior)＞Public Records Restituted from the United States No.2＞Foreign Affairs Confidential Extra edition relating to the speech and behavior of interpreters to Allied Forces
[Reference Code]A07040002300[Total of Image]5

Japan Center for Asian Historical Records

English translation by Shinpachi.

 

[vikingBerserker]

That was very interesting, thanks Shinpachi!

I have to agree the occupation from what I have read was peaceful.

 

[VBF-13]

Now that your occupation resulted in success with few troubles, please be aware that disorder would be inevitable absolutely if you should destroy what we hold in reverence. Our religion is different from yours but your occupation this time succeeded due to this religion. If you should annihilate it, communists will try to control this country and you are to see more extreme communits here than in Russia. Is not it the United States that holds the most wealth in the world and may suffer the maximum damage from our disorder?

This is revealing even today in societies that lose their religion. I'm not making a value judgment. I'm just saying, it's pretty much a fact.

 

[Shinpachi]

Thank you very much for your nice reading, David and VBF-13.
My three days for translation is now rewarded

 

[VBF-13]

I've been going through this thread really trying at bottom to determine whether I think this war in the Pacific could have been prevented. I'm seeing deeply-rooted Japanese imperatives and the aggression culminating on December 7, 1941 as really just an inevitable consequence of those deeply-rooted imperatives. I'm seeing more, now, however. For example, would the U.S. have really placed Japan on an equal footing with its Western European allies in that region for the treasures and wealth in that region? I don't know that we would have. Could Japan have known that? Yes, I think it very well could have. That throws some of the blame for the aggression on December 7, 1941 off on our policy towards Japan. If we were treating Japan as a second-class nation in that region, that would explain that aggression, I'd think. What do you all think of that?

 

[parsifal]

put simply, how many sides do you need to make war. at least two.

another way of putting it is to quote biblical..."let he who is without blame cast the first stone" Truth is, the pacific was unlike the European war. There was a element of shared blame stretching back nearly 100 years. I firmly believe that the immediate causes of the war were all from the japanese...by the mid 30's they had bad intent toward their neighbours and progressed that to its inevitable conclusion. but in the longer view, they were dealing with an unequal playing field by people (us) that intended no good toward them.


So who caused it? we all did I guess.

 

[VBF-13]

put simply, how many sides do you need to make war. at least two.

another way of putting it is to quote biblical..."let he who is without blame cast the first stone" Truth is, the pacific was unlike the European war. There was a element of shared blame stretching back nearly 100 years. I firmly believe that the immediate causes of the war were all from the japanese...by the mid 30's they had bad intent toward their neighbours and progressed that to its inevitable conclusion. but in the longer view, they were dealing with an unequal playing field by people (us) that intended no good toward them.


So who caused it? we all did I guess.

I guess that's what I'm seeing, now, Parsifal. This was a productive thread for that, too, at least, from my point of view. Basically, when you dig a little, this confrontation was inevitable. I started out trying to see the provocations on the Japanese side a little clearer. Perhaps by 1941 the conflicts in the policies towards each nation were too entrenched to unravel. Simply put, I think Japan saw itself as a second-class nation in that region being crowded out by the U.S. and the Western European powers, and, probably, rightfully so, there was probably a lot of truth in that. They struck first, because, well, why not? They were going nowhere with that bunch quick.

 

[razor1uk]

That's true guys, that and they had a history of being more successful from the ambush and surprise attack methods - to be fair they knew it as much as the US did.
In my opinion, to swing public opinion into allowing War, the American politico's and military hawks repressed some known info from the public to allow the 'back-lash' that unlock that manpower, the isolationist minds and the capitol purse strings - though any paperwork, if there was any, relating to that alleged incident would have been lost/destroyed to protect the 'patriotic' from morale collapse and wanting a new revolution.

Those who end up believing their own propaganda are inevitably doomed to fail when the illusion shatters, or at leasts a massive face palm to foot insert as$ in mouth event.

 

[yulzari]

The Royal Navy certainly felt uncomfortable about abandoning their allies the Imperial Japanese Navy in the later 1920's but Japan was not making friends at the time. Even the Germans were arming the Chinese well into the 1930's.

Whatever the moral issues, I strongly suspect that Japan would still control Korea and Manchuria had they drawn in their horns when meeting criticism for extending their adventures deeper into China and not gone on to begin a Pacific war. No further Chinese adventures probably means a Nationalist victory in China over the Communists and China using Japan as an ally to deter the Russians.

 

[Marcel]

Thanks for that translation Shinpachi.
I was intrigued by the story. How much are these views from mr. Nagai still valid today? Have the sentiments changed much since then?

 

[Shinpachi]

No one believes His Majesty is God any more but pays respects as a descendant of nation founders.
Japanese people's perspective for His Majesty today is defined in the Constitution of Japan issued on November 3, 1946 as follows and that is not different from public awareness.


Chapter I. The Emperor
=================
Article 1. The Emperor shall be the symbol of the State and of the unity of the people, deriving his position from the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power.

Article 2. The Imperial Throne shall be dynastic and succeeded to in accordance with the Imperial House Law passed by the Diet.

Article 3. The advice and approval of the Cabinet shall be required for all acts of the Emperor in matters of state, and the Cabinet shall be responsible therefor.

Article 4. The Emperor shall perform only such acts in matters of state as are provided for in this Constitution and he shall not have powers related to government.
(2) The Emperor may delegate the performance of his acts in matters of state as may be provided by law.

Article 5. When, in accordance with the Imperial House Law, a Regency is established, the Regent shall perform his acts in matters of state in the Emperor's name. In this case, paragraph one of the preceding article will be applicable.

Article 6. The Emperor shall appoint the Prime Minister as designated by the Diet.
(2) The Emperor shall appoint the Chief Judge of the Supreme Court as designated by the Cabinet.

Article 7. The Emperor, with the advice and approval of the Cabinet, shall perform the following acts in matters of state on behalf of the people:
1.Promulgation of amendments of the constitution, laws, cabinet orders and treaties.
2.Convocation of the Diet.
3.Dissolution of the House of Representatives.
4.Proclamation of general election of members of the Diet.
5.Attestation of the appointment and dismissal of Ministers of State and other officials as provided for by law, and of full powers and credentials of Ambassadors and Ministers.
6.Attestation of general and special amnesty, commutation of punishment, reprieve, and restoration of rights.
7.Awarding of honors.
8.Attestation of instruments of ratification and other diplomatic documents as provided for by law.
9.Receiving foreign ambassadors and ministers.
10.Performance of ceremonial functions.

Article 8. No property can be given to, or received by, the Imperial House, nor can any gifts be made therefrom, without the authorization of the Diet.

********************************************************************************
Data source

 

[parsifal]

Whatever the moral issues, I strongly suspect that Japan would still control Korea and Manchuria had they drawn in their horns when meeting criticism for extending their adventures deeper into China and not gone on to begin a Pacific war. No further Chinese adventures probably means a Nationalist victory in China over the Communists and China using Japan as an ally to deter the Russians.

Japan is generally credited with awakening asian nationalism, that has led to independance throughout the far east. without that latent japanese "liberation" such movements would have had a far harder time achieving independance. it was an inevitable movement (asian nationalism) but it would have been slower, more painful, without the Japanese. Not that they really had that intent....but because they stood up for a short while, they gave a lead to other people to also seek their freedom.

 

[Shinpachi]

Thanks parsifal for taking the other side of the war favorably.

Sorry for my off-topic but what I can not understand well is the communists who took power in China behaves as if the winner of ww2.
Were they supported by the Allied too? I don't think so, though.

 

[parsifal]

There was some sort of American mission in late '44, but I dont know much beyond that

 

[Shinpachi]

Thanks.

 

[razor1uk]

The PRC acts like that in my mind, to hide its own guilt to its exterminating so many of its own followers along with those deemed traitors, intellectuals and agitators etc - blaming others more than facts would allow, because it cannot judge itself to risk a peoples backlash - they have a severe aggressive paranoia against any hint of a revolution toppling them, like how they got to power.

 

[Shinpachi]

In historical view, the winner of ww2 in China was Nationalists and their country ROC still exists in Taiwan regardless international society admits or not.

Communists occupied mainland China in 1949 after the war ended but failed to inherit Chinese history and culture properly because most of ROC official documents during the war and half of national treasure of Chinese successive dynasties were kept and brought to Taiwan by Chiang Kai-shek.

Politically, PRC is China but, on history and culture, I doubt.

Sorry for my off-topic again.

 

[vikingBerserker]

A really good book to read that touches upon the topic is Way of a Fighter: The Memoirs of Claire Lee Chennault . He talks about the communist roll in the war and they for the most part avoided direct battles with the Japanese and probably spent more time fighting the Nationalist than they did them. They really did very little towards any fighting, their biggest contribution being they stopped fighting the Nationalist for a while.

The Allies rarely helped them at all.

 

[parsifal]

The CCP avoided direct battles for most of the war, but their cadres were very active in the partisan warfare that really dogged the Japanese in China. Moreover, at the very beginning, in 1937, the KMT refused to cease its operations against the CCP which allowed the Japanese to overrun large part of the country. it was the CCP that suggested a united front against the Japanese, and this won them a lot of support amongst the general chinese population. finally, in areas controlled by the CCP, they at least set up basic infrastructure to assist the local population, whereas in the KMT controlled areas it was often at the mercy of ruthless and greedy warlords operating with no regard to the needs of the local populace. This was part of the battle of the hearts and minds that Mao so strongly emphasised. of course, the flip side of the carrot, was the stick, and the Communists were quite prepred to use the latter when it was needed to achieve their aims

At the very end, in 1945, the CCP contributed siginificantly to the Soviet advances, providing good support to the final drives to capture Peking

There were good reasons for the Communst victories in 1949. And the Communists would have faded fairly rapidly if the KMT had anything good to offer the Chinese people. Facts are the KMT was an extemely corrupt and anarchic regime that was not a good thing for its people. The Communists offered something the KMT didnt, a bit of hope for a better future. The hope was faslely placed, but it was better than what the nationalists were offering