Komets in the skies above Germany

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Sagittario64, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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  2. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Nice videos:shock:
    Thanks for sharing, Sagittario64!
     
  3. Alte Hase

    Alte Hase Member

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    Cool video footage! Those Komets must have been as terrifying to be in from the pilot's perspective as they were from the perspective of the crew being attacked!
     
  4. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    From what I have read and seen about the Komets, the guys flying them were either very brave, or crazy. Maybe it was a combination of the two. The fuel was so volatile it could vaporize a human. It would be a heck of a ride when the acceleration kicked in though.
     
  5. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Great link, that had to be a hell of a ride
     
  6. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    I know this is a wwii aircraft forum. Check out the History Channel's "Dogfights" series on YouTube. It dealt alot with many famous airbattles all throughout aviation history, like a famous WWI duel between a German and French ace, the advent of the Fokker Dr.1, the flying tigers of wwii, the combat career of the p-51 mustang(including the encounters with me.262 jet fighters), the legend of Y-29, secret weapons of the wwii powers, even special episodes for the pacific sea war and the sinking of the Superbattleships, like the Yamato and Musashi, also the Bismark, and i think the Tirpitz. It even has a part about Operation Aphrodite, and post wwii air battles, up to and including the gulf wars, and even a simulated battle between eurofighter typhoons and f-22 raptors. they use people with real combat and history experience to make these episodes and it really turns out great. the fact that they got so many axis pilot accounts of the second world war shows the length they go to to show both sides of the conflict
     
  7. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    I think a lot of the members here have watched at least an episode or 2. They do a great job with the series and I have met some of the gentlemen that they have done episodes on.
     
  8. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    They didn't have the benefit of hindsight so Me-163 pilots were no crazier then pilots flying dozens of other new aircraft types during the 1940s. For all they knew Me-163 bugs were fixable just as Typhoon, Me-210, P-38 and B-29 bugs were eventually fixed.

    Brave for sure.
     
  9. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    The Me.263 would have solved many of the problems with the 163, and was likely to become the most viable solution for the point-defence interceptor strategy germany needed in her Defence of the Reich campaign
     
  10. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    I kinda doubt this. One issue with the '163 was it was too fast for piston engined bombers; many interceptions were overshot because of the incredible approach speeds and the fact that the MK 108 was a low velocity gun. Another problem was the ease with which the '163 could exceed its Vne; some had a 'Mach warnung' light in the cockpit and there are documented examples of the planes being flown to bits because of excessive speed.

    Their wings were wooden and they had fabric control surfaces! Me 163 pilots sure were brave; if you can get a copy, read Mano Ziegler's book Rocket Fighter; he was a pilot with JG 400. Excellent read.
     
  11. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    Im not saying the Me.163 was the centerpoint for the needed plan, im saying the much improved 263 would likely have had somewhat more success than its predecessor. i never said completely viable, i said most viable. rocket fighters are hardly viable to take on the brunt of any campaign or task, but they provide much needed advances and pyschological terror
     
  12. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    No such thing for a fighter aircraft. If it was possible they would fly Mach 5 and still ask for more speed.

    Only 91 Me-163s entered service before the end of 1944 so we can consider them pre-production aircraft. If the Me-163 showed promise (which it didn't) the 1945 mass production version would probably have a gyro stabilized gunsight and be first in line for the new MG213 revolver cannon. That would take care of weapon issues.
     
  13. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    it doesn't solve the time issue. A 500mph aircraft even from the rear on a 200mph aircraft is closing at 300mph (let alone a mach 5 aircraft). That is 440feet per second, in a head on pass the closing speed is 700mph or 1027fps. there isn't enough time to line up on the target, fire a burst of worthwhile length and maneuver to avoid collision.
    Are we talking about a gyro gunsight or a gyro stabilized gun sight which is not the same thing?

    Modern aircraft use radar ranging instead of guess work or a ranging ring to get the range to target. Aiming mark is generated by a computer with other sensors to help get the correct position. A WW II gyro gun sight was not stabilized and it only measured the rate of turn to generate the lead needed on a turning target target. It did not measure range or rate of closure.

    to put even the stern chase into perspective the 500mph rocket plane is closing at over 1/4 mile in 3 seconds. The rocket plane pilot is going to have to pick his target at close to a 1/2 mile away do his final line up, aim, fire, and avoid colliding with the target all in about 6 seconds or less. Some pilots may be able to do this but on average it doesn't look good.
     
  14. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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  15. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    I get a page not found when I click on the link.
     
  16. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    Search for Dogfights: Secret Weapons and/or Wings of the Luftwaffe Me.163 on youtube
     
  17. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    MG213C fires 3cm mine shells at 1,200 rounds per minute. A 1 second burst = 20 shells. Enough to bring down any aircraft provided you hit the target.
     
  18. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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    Comes up for me OK.
     
  19. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Still doesn't alter the disparity of speed between the attacker and the victim. North Korean MiG-15s encountered the same issues against USAF B-29s during the Korean War.

    Saggitario64, yep, you are right, the LW would have most certainly had a very potent interceptor in the '263, but the LW were better off increasing piston and gas turbine powered interceptor numbers; until the advent of jet bombers, the rockets were just too fast against piston engined foes. That's not to say they were ineffective, but they had serious limitations. The Me 163B-1as were also, contrary to what is stated, full production variants not pre-production aircraft, that went into action with JG 400.

    Here is a good site on the '163, although it primarily deals with the 'B' model:

    Me 163B Komet
     
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