Lancaster OL-F - when and where?

Back2TheBike · Wednesday at 11:32 AM

Really appreciating the expertise from the forum, thanks all!
Here's another challenge that has puzzled me for over 30 years. Lancaster OL-F.
Can anyone identify where these (3" x 2") photos were taken, which Squadron, approx date? I've colourised a couple of them.
His bases included (in order):

Jan 1945 - Bottesford, probably 1668 Heavy Conversion Unit, 7 Group
as above, 1662 CU(A) HCU
71 Base (possibilities include RAF Lindholme, Yorkshire, RAF Blyton Lincs, RAF Sandtoft)
227 Squadron RAF Gravely, Cambridgeshire, No8 Pathfinder Force
Dunkeswell, Devon, No44 Group, Transport Command No 16 Ferry Unit
582 Sqn, Little Staughton but also attached to RAF Dunkeswell
Feb 1946 - Aldergrove, Northern Ireland, before he was cancelled

Seems dad was moved a round a lot, don't know if this was typical.

Wurger · Wednesday at 12:46 PM

The code OL identifies no. 83 Squadron. I found this ...

There were twelve seperate Lancasters that carried the OL-F code during the course of the war.
R5667 1657 Conversion Unit crashed 19-8-43 (341 hours on airframe)
R5671 to maintenance unit scrapped 1-47
R5857 crashed on take off Mildenhall 7-11-42
W4981 missing 14-5-43 (17 hours on airframe)
ED312 crashed at Stettin, Sweden 21-4-43
ED602 619 Sqdn lost Karlsruhe 27-9-44
JB453 lost Berlin 3-1-44
ND333 to maintenance unit scrapped 11-46
ND824 to maintenance unit struck off charge 28-11-46
ND854 lost Brest 14-8-44
PB376 went to maintenance unit and scrapped 11-46
PB470 became instructional airframe

The code letters are of the white so it indicates the August 1945 or later. It is quite intersting because in the pics you posted for the PB376 , the ND824 is standing next to the PB376.

The no 83 Squadron based :
15 August 1942-18 April 1944: Wyton
18 April 1944-5 October 1945: Coningsby

Back2TheBike · Wednesday at 1:07 PM

Wurger said:
The code OL identifies no. 83 Squadron. I found this ...

The code letters are of the white so it indicates the August 1945 or later. It is quite intersting because in the pics you posted for the PB376 , the ND824 is standing next to the PB376.

Your knowledge is encyclopedic, amazing.
So it seems ND824 with half finished 83 Sqn badge was re-desigated as OL-F.
I think you've just solved a 30 year mystery.
Thank you very much.

Wurger · Wednesday at 1:13 PM

Back2TheBike said:
Your knowledge is encyclopedic, amazing.
So it seems ND824 with half finished 83 Sqn badge was re-desigated as OL-F.
I think you've just solved a 30 year mystery.
Thank you very much.

Actually no I haven't. The ND824 is parked next to the Lanc with the serial PB376 on the undersides you posted in the another thread. Can you see? The serial ND824 can be noticed very clearly IMHO.

Wurger · Wednesday at 1:36 PM

According to the service history the ND824 was with the no. 83 Squadron from 11.04.1944. While the PB376 was servicing in the no. 97 Squadron from 06.08.1944 to 14.03.1946 when was moved to the no.83. The PB376 was coded OF-S while servicing in the no.97 Squadron. But what one was when served in no.83 Squadron it is difficult to find.

The no.97 Squadron based:
18 April 1943-18 April 1944: Bourn
18 April 1944-5 November 1946: Coningsby

So if you compare the bases and the time frame for both squadrons it looks like both were based in the RAF Coningsby at the same time. Both the bombers were scrapped in November 1946.
To sum up ... the only locations these Lancs could be found together is either at the RAF Coningsby or the no. 15 MU in July 1946. Because the crew members in all pictures are weraing the uniforms I would say the Coningsby. IMHO all images ( both here and in the another thread, were taken at the same location.

Back2TheBike · Wednesday at 1:49 PM

Wurger said:
According to the service history the ND824 was with the no. 83 Squadron from 11.04.1944. While the PB376 was servicing in the no. 97 Squadron from 06.08.1944 to 14.03.1946 when was moved to the no.83. The PB376 was coded OF-S while servicing in the no.97 Squadron. But what one was when served in no.83 Squadron it is difficult to find.

The no.97 Squadron based:
18 April 1943-18 April 1944: Bourn
18 April 1944-5 November 1946: Coningsby

So if you compare the bases and the time frame for both squadrons it looks like both were based in the RAF Coningsby at the same time. Both the bombers were scrapped in November 1946.
To sum up ... the only locations these Lancs could be found together is either at the RAF Coningsby or the no. 15 MU in July 1946. Because the crew members in all pictures are weraing the uniforms I would say the Coningsby. IMHO all images ( both here and in the another thread, were taken at the same location.

View attachment 802468

OK, understood.
I'll try to cross match some images of dad to Coningsby's Record Site Plan. That should nail it, thanks to you!

Wurger · Wednesday at 1:51 PM

My pleasure.

Snautzer01 · Wednesday at 2:56 PM

Wurger said:
My pleasure.

Impressive. Well done.

Wurger · Wednesday at 3:11 PM

THX.

Back2TheBike · Thursday at 3:15 AM

Following the light shed by Wurger yesterday, I delved into 83 Sqn's ORBs and discovered dad was posted to Coningsby from Bruntingthorpe 23rd April 1946, then back to Bruntingthorpe 30th July. The ORB cites various ops inc Dodge (repatriation of troops from Bari, Italy), training, cross country flying etc. Interestingly, the Lancasters were disposed of to Maintenance Units in July, to be replaced by Lincolns.
I've attached the ORB (makes an interesting read), but also a selection of dad's airborne images. Whether these were 83 or his stint at 227 or 582 Sqns (roughly June '45 to April '46) I have no idea. Note both the Spitfires formating, also the bomb disposal run over the North Sea (bomb doors open).
Also attached is the Nijmegen Bridge (presumably from a Cook's tour ride), scene of a major fight.
If anyone has any thoughts that further reveal the story, please fire away ...

EwenS · Thursday at 4:33 AM

OL-F is an interesting airframe. Note it is equipped with a Rose tail turret with 2x0.5" MG instead of the usual Frazer-Nash FN 20 with 4x0.303" MG. Unusual for a 5 Group Lancaster as the majority of these turrets were fitted in 1 Group Lancasters. It was late 1944 before these turrets became available, so it looks like it had replaced the FN 20 it would have carried when it left the factory.

Wurger · Thursday at 6:02 AM

Back2TheBike said:
Following the light shed by Wurger yesterday, I delved into 83 Sqn's ORBs and discovered dad was posted to Coningsby from Bruntingthorpe 23rd April 1946, then back to Bruntingthorpe 30th July. The ORB cites various ops inc Dodge (repatriation of troops from Bari, Italy), training, cross country flying etc. Interestingly, the Lancasters were disposed of to Maintenance Units in July, to be replaced by Lincolns.
I've attached the ORB (makes an interesting read), but also a selection of dad's airborne images. Whether these were 83 or his stint at 227 or 582 Sqns (roughly June '45 to April '46) I have no idea. Note both the Spitfires formating, also the bomb disposal run over the North Sea (bomb doors open).
Also attached is the Nijmegen Bridge (presumably from a Cook's tour ride), scene of a major fight.
If anyone has any thoughts that further reveal the story, please fire away ...

The very nice shots. The Spitfire seems to be the Mk.V with clipped wings without armament and marked with the single "B" letter. All that indicates the post-war period of time.

Back2TheBike · Thursday at 6:35 AM

Post war? So, indicating the photo is 83 Sqn Coningsby rather than his 1945 227 and 582 postings.
Another strand exposed, thanks.
For anyone interested, the 582 and 109 Remembrance Day service will be at Little Staughton Church, 1045am on 10th November. I'll be there.
Pathfinders were awarded 3 VCs. Two of those were from LS, one each per squadron. 8000 tons of bombs in 13 months.
109 was the Oboe pioneer, 60 yard accuracy by the war's close.

Wurger · Thursday at 6:47 AM

Back2TheBike said:
Post war? So, indicating the photo is 83 Sqn Coningsby rather than his 1945 227 and 582 postings.

Yes, that's exactly I think.

special ed · Thursday at 11:27 AM

For model finishing purposes, note the port spinners are solid color while starboard spinners have white caps.

Back2TheBike · Thursday at 12:27 PM

special ed said:
For model finishing purposes, note the port spinners are solid color while starboard spinners have white caps.

Interesting. I wonder why?

Wurger · Thursday at 1:25 PM

special ed said:
For model finishing purposes, note the port spinners are solid color while starboard spinners have white caps.

Back2TheBike said:
Interesting. I wonder why?

Sorry guys but IMHO that are two different planes. The Lanc with the Spitfire in the two images - it can be noticed that the spinner of the outer starboard prop is of the black solid colour. Also the wing undersides of the seen starboard wing also are black what can be noticed at the wing leading edge. Contrary to that the Lanc with the white "noses" of the starboard prop spinners has the light strip along the wing leading edge. IMHO it is something like the yellow quick ID strip applied. So .... two Lancasters and two times of taking the shots.

Wurger · Friday at 9:18 AM

And to sum up ...

The white code letters again indicate the time period after the August 1945. The "OL-F" code is the ID used by the no.83 Sqaudron. Because there were more of the Lancs with the same code I have checked on these of them that fit the time frame. The candidates were ...

ND333 to maintenance unit scrapped 11-46
ND824 to maintenance unit struck off charge 28-11-46
PB376 went to maintenance unit and scrapped 11-46
PB470 became instructional airframe

According to the service history the ND333 belonged to the no.83 Squadron in 1944 and then was moved to the no.106 Squadron on the September 2nd, 1944. Because of the white letter code I excluded the kite. The PB470 became the squadron Lancaster just on the September 2nd, 1944. So it looks like she replaced the ND333. Unfortunately the PB470 was damaged on the February 9th, 1945 due to a bomb explosion while loadingh the Lancaster NG453 (OL-M) at the RAF Coningsby. The PB478 (OL-E) was the another one lost during the incident and was destroyed fully. The PB470 was sent to the A.V. Roe factory for repairing and got back to the squdron within two weeks. On 11th August 1945 she was moved to the no. 9 Squadron. So when the white code letters were introduced the PB470 wasn't in the RAF. Removed from the list.
Finally there are two Lancaster that could fit , the ND824 and PB376. IMHO no matter which one was coded with the OL-F. The plane has still the guns in the rear turret. This may indicate the 1945. So IMHO the images were taken in the September/October 1945 or like it was said in the another thread for the PB376 Lancaster, in 1946. The location seems to be still the same ... the RAF Coningsby.

The pictures in the post #10 also seem too be the post-war ones. The unarmed Spitfire V without the underwing RAF roundel seems to confirm that. IMHO the 1945.

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