Landing Neutral Country

[The Basket]

What happened to Allied and Axis aircraft and aircrew that landed in neutral countries? Were they interned or released and the aircraft captured?

I is mainly thinking about Swiss, Sweden, Portugal, Spain and Ireland.

Was anyone charged landing there to escape the war?

 

[Civettone]

I only know about allied pilots. Their planes were usually kept while the pilots were usually allowed to return to their country. Usually that last bit happened unofficial. They were released and had to find their own way back home.

Kris

 

[comiso90]

Our "friend" and "ally", the Russians interned some of The Doolittle Raiders until the end of the war. I always wondered how much pressure we put on them to get the flyers back..

Were they really that afraid of angering the Japanese? Their memories of the Russo- Japanese war must have still been fresh.

Perhaps if we withheld some lend-lease our guys could have come home sooner.

Has anybody heard what the conditions were like? Were the Doolittle Flyers simply confined to a barracks or were they in "prison"?

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[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I can not say officially what happened, but I believe the neutral countries for the most part interned them and kept the aircraft. I am sure some crews were allowed to return home.

I believe there was the case of a few Bf 109s or 110s that were interned in Switzerland before the war even started.

Here is an interesting website. It also states the Swiss interned all crews no matter what nationality.
Air War Web Portal: General Info on Interned Aircraft in Switzerland

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Here are some interesting links to aircraft interned by Switzerland:

RAF
Air War Web Portal: British Aircraft Interned in Switzerland

Luftwaffe
Air War Web Portal: German Aircraft interned in Switzerland

Italian
Air War Web Portal: Italian aircraft interned in Switzerland

USAAF
Air War Web Portal: US Aircraft interned in Switzerland

 

[The Basket]

Good stuff Adler

I was thinking also about defections or whether any pilot flew his aircraft to a nuetral country to sit out the war. And whether the crew when returned were ever charged.

The most famous I can find is the NJG3 Ju 88R which landed at Dyce near Aberdeen Scotland 9 May 1943. The crew defected and gave us the Lichtenstien radar free of charge!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Read some more of that website. There is some stuff in there about Luftwaffe crews defecting to Switzerland to escape the war. They ofcourse were interned.

The one I find most interesting is the story of Bf 110G-4 of III./NJG 6. code 'C9+EN' flown by Hptm. Johnen. The plane had important and sensative equipment such as radar, etc.. and the Swiss agreed to destroy the aircraft and in return were 12 brand new Bf 109G's.

 

[comiso90]

Funny seeing a 109 dressed in Swiss

interesting site:

Swiss Mustangs

les Messerschmitt 109 Suisses

 

[Micdrow]

The Russians also interned 3 B-29's of which one was used to reverse engineer into the Tu-4.

More below at this link.

Russian B-29 Clone — The TU-4 Story, by Wayland Mayo, Page 10

 

[comiso90]

The Russians also interned 3 B-29's of which one was used to reverse engineer into the Tu-4.

More below at this link.

Russian B-29 Clone — The TU-4 Story, by Wayland Mayo, Page 10

Comrade, you joke. The TU-4 has no resemblance to the B-29..

great photos here:

Monino museum highlights

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[SoD Stitch]

Quick question: Since the Russians obviously couldn't put American engines in the Tu-4, what did they put in them? Did they reverse-engineer the Wright R-3350's also? Or did they use a Soviet radial engine?

 

[Graeme]

Did they reverse-engineer the Wright R-3350's also?

Commonly thought, but a suitable engine already existed. This had begun life as as the ASh-71, but by 1944 this had developed into the ASh-73TK, with two TK-19 turbosuperchargers, with a continuous rating of 2,000hp and with 2,400hp (more than the B-29) available for take-off at 2,600rpm.

The installation differed considerably from that of the B-29, though not much showed externally. The props were 16ft 7ins in diameter, the same as B-29.

The Chinese utilised some Tu-4s with turboprops and a couple of these were used as AEW aircraft.



Interesting fact is that the Soviets completed the civil Tu-70 before the Tu-4.

 

[The Basket]

The Soviets used Soviet guns too.

By the time the Tu 4 had got going the Americans had the jet Boeing B47 and the Soviet own cheap and nasty but very capable MiG-15 could shoot down B29s no probs.

So a bit late. But Tupelov used B29 technology in later jet and turboprop bomber designs.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Funny seeing a 109 dressed in Swiss

interesting site:

Swiss Mustangs

les Messerschmitt 109 Suisses

Not sure if all of those were interned Luftwaffe Bf 109s. Remember the Swiss bought quite a few 109s from the Germans. Between 80 and 100 I believe and used them still to about 49 into the early 50s.

 

[syscom3]

I know quite a few AAF bombers landed in Sweden during the war.

 

[delcyros]

In late 1939, five RAF Hurricane MK I violated neutral belgic airspace. They were forced to land and - with UK gouvernmental agreement - planes and pilots were interned in Belgium. The pilots were allowed to return as soon as Germany attacked Belgium in 1940 while all planes were handed over to the belgic airforce months before. Interestingly, they modified the armement, replacing the .3 cal with four .50cal guns.

 

[drgondog]

The Soviets used Soviet guns too.

By the time the Tu 4 had got going the Americans had the jet Boeing B47 and the Soviet own cheap and nasty but very capable MiG-15 could shoot down B29s no probs.

So a bit late. But Tupelov used B29 technology in later jet and turboprop bomber designs.

The MiG hammered the B-29 during daylight but had a very difficult time at night. IIRC the loss rate went to 1% for all causes after the switch - and US started flying Night Fighter escort/intruder missions.

As a kid I can remember some interesting 'whisky talk' about a few very successful night intruder missions by A-26s that were 'theoretically' shut down by State Dept. I have never been able to find reference to them, even in time of Glasnost'..

On the Swiss internment - there was a pretty testy incident when the Swiss shot down a crippled Fort on final approach at Zurich on April 24, 1944 killing the remaining crew. A huge flap behind closed doors.

I don't have all the facts but don't believe they shot down another American a/c again and am pretty sure the 4th FG shot down a couple of Swiss 109s that they tangled with about the same time in spring 1944.

 

[comiso90]

Not sure if all of those were interned Luftwaffe Bf 109s. Remember the Swiss bought quite a few 109s from the Germans. Between 80 and 100 I believe and used them still to about 49 into the early 50s.

The photo with the yellow tail is from 1946

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[delcyros]

A number of B-24 were interned in Turkey when they returned from their Ploesti Raids. Must have been strange to be escorted by turkish planes, as Turkey also filded Fw-190A interceptors by this time...