Large prop hub

[Engineman]

Hi Larry!

For everyone interested, here is a close-up shot of my Battle of Britain Bf 109 E prop that was shot down in Southern England in August 1940, showing the stamped numbers.

As you will see, these numbers are stamped around the front end of the hub. Your hub shown in your post #1 is slightly later and has a sort-of cylindrical extension at the front. I am not certain if your hub will have the stamping on that cylindrical extension or, if they will be in the same place as I show. A clue to the front of the hub in my pic is the large nut on the blade pitch adjustment shaft that you can see, there are 3, one for each pitch adjusting shaft.
So, this hub fortunately also has a surviving soft alloy id plate that is stamped 9-11081 with Ausf A, making the complete GERAT (ASSEMBLY or UNIT) a 9-11081A.
The stamped numbers here show as follows.
The larger numbers are, 9-11081.25 and that is the main NABE (HUB) Type number.
Above that number, in smaller stamping, is zu WNr 12.4299 which is the Serial number of this complete prop assembly.
Also, partly visible at lower left is F 12.14915 which is the Serial number of the FLUGEL (BLADES) set. This number is also stamped on the blade bases with an F before it.

These numbers may be readable if the corrosion is not to bad on the Hub. It is certainly worth removing the modern paint and gentle rust removal to see if numbers can be found!

Cheers

Eng

 

[Larrythepilot]

Back to prop hubs.

First, we do indeed have a hub we think is for a Bf-109. And we have 3 blades we believe go in that hub. See attached pictures.

But having the Bf-109 hub and blades does not solve the mystery of the larger unknown hub with the little gear wheels. In an effort to find useful numbers, we used some paint remover to get rid of the modern black paint in some areas, where there ought to be numbers. No such luck. Here are 3 (useless) pictures of where there ought to be numbers. Finally, here is a picture of an area that looks like there was once a data plate affixed (sorry for the poor focus). We just can't find any additional numbers on this hub.

We are willing to try/measure/scrape, or do anything else you might suggest, but we are at a loss as to what we should do next.

Thanks, Larry

 

[Wurger]

Hi

In the first pic I can see the no. 9-11081.25 what indicates the BF 1O9E/F , Bf 110C/D or He 111P/H and also the Ju-88 or Do 215 prop hub, either for the DB 601A/N engine or Jumo 211B/D one. Basicly used for Bf 109E and Ju-88, Do 215.

In the second pic the no. 9-12067.10 indicates a metal prop blade for the Fw 190A.

 

[Engineman]

Back to prop hubs.

First, we do indeed have a hub we think is for a Bf-109. And we have 3 blades we believe go in that hub. See attached pictures.

But having the Bf-109 hub and blades does not solve the mystery of the larger unknown hub with the little gear wheels. In an effort to find useful numbers, we used some paint remover to get rid of the modern black paint in some areas, where there ought to be numbers. No such luck. Here are 3 (useless) pictures of where there ought to be numbers. Finally, here is a picture of an area that looks like there was once a data plate affixed (sorry for the poor focus). We just can't find any additional numbers on this hub.

We are willing to try/measure/scrape, or do anything else you might suggest, but we are at a loss as to what we should do next.

Thanks, Larry

Hi Larry,

Great to see your hubs and blade pictures!
First of all, you have some previously dismantled props, so loose blades, hubs etc. This makes your job of ID'ing them more difficult. Also, you have already mis-identified some parts and that is leading you up the wrong path, in some ways.
So, using your pictures from your post #22 today, I have these points (that agree with Wurger).

Photo 1/6 of the Hub numbers, shows a Hub of the same type as mine 9-11081.25 which might have been from a Bf109E or early F, Bf110 early types with DB601A, early He111, Ju 88
and Do215. Without the known specific Gerat Nr, or the Blade type, the exact application is one of those.

Photo 2/6 of Blade 9-12067.10 is only listed for fitment to Hub 9-12022.22 or .21 for the early Fw190 with BMW801C/D. This blade is not listed for fitment to the Hub in photo 1/6!

Photo 3/6 I can't see any numbers.

Photo 4/6 I can't see any numbers.

Photo 5/6 I can see numbers "12" just right of centre in the bottom 1/3 of way from bottom of shot! Usually, the stamps are in a grouping so, this looks to be the area!
You might try the old brass-rubbing technique with paper and pencil or similar to bring it out. Also, dye and UV light can work, or fancy camera.
Note that, the rust is harder than the steel, so you can sometimes get a better result with gentle cleaning with fine real carborundum paper to remove rust but not the steel. Some use of flapper-wheels can cut the steel but not cut the rust!

Photo 6/6 shows the rear face of a hub, with a blade housing and the attachment flat for the spinner backplate and the six screw-holes. You do not usually see any stampings here.

Overall, the 12067 blade and the 11081 hub in your pics are for different fitments, they are not a listed combination. The photo 5/6 looks to have some numbers in it and detailed examination may reveal more.

Cheers

Eng

 

[Engineman]

Back to prop hubs.

First, we do indeed have a hub we think is for a Bf-109. And we have 3 blades we believe go in that hub. See attached pictures.

But having the Bf-109 hub and blades does not solve the mystery of the larger unknown hub with the little gear wheels. In an effort to find useful numbers, we used some paint remover to get rid of the modern black paint in some areas, where there ought to be numbers. No such luck. Here are 3 (useless) pictures of where there ought to be numbers. Finally, here is a picture of an area that looks like there was once a data plate affixed (sorry for the poor focus). We just can't find any additional numbers on this hub.

We are willing to try/measure/scrape, or do anything else you might suggest, but we are at a loss as to what we should do next.

Thanks, Larry

Hi Larry,

Just wondering if you had any more success with the Hub?
Certainly, it looks like there are numbers in the area of the pic 5/6 that deserve special attention.
I also suspect that the Flugellagerung (blade bearing/fittings) where you have found a number so far, should have their part numbers on them. They will certainly help and could be a defining detail as some Flugellagerung are specific to a specific type of Prop Gerat.
I hope your Easter museum sessions have gone well!

Cheers

Eng

 

[Larrythepilot]

Hello Engineman -- I have two things to tell you

1. I looked at photo 5/6, and found what you think are the numbers 12. I then spent some time "editing" the picture to make those numbers more clear. Have a look at the attached picture. Then I printed that picture an took it to the museum to match it with the prop hub to look at the numbers "live". I located what I believe to be the area where the picture was taken. You can tell from the surrounding paint and corrosion. My conclusion is that those are not real numbers stamped on the hub. They are (were?) just random dirt and corrosion. Just scratching the area with my fingernail makes stuff fall off. But there are no numbers 12 stamped into the hub.

2. However, we do have some real numbers that are quite clear. Joe Clegg was examining flat surfaces with a magnifying glass, and he came upon some numbers on the narrow flange where a blade would enter the hub. After fiddling with the angle of the light, I was able to get a pretty good picture. The letters WP are stamped into the flange, and just to the right there is a little number 4 inside a circle. See attached picture. Pardon my finger in the picture.

Larry

 

[Engineman]

Hello Engineman -- I have two things to tell you

1. I looked at photo 5/6, and found what you think are the numbers 12. I then spent some time "editing" the picture to make those numbers more clear. Have a look at the attached picture. Then I printed that picture an took it to the museum to match it with the prop hub to look at the numbers "live". I located what I believe to be the area where the picture was taken. You can tell from the surrounding paint and corrosion. My conclusion is that those are not real numbers stamped on the hub. They are (were?) just random dirt and corrosion. Just scratching the area with my fingernail makes stuff fall off. But there are no numbers 12 stamped into the hub.

2. However, we do have some real numbers that are quite clear. Joe Clegg was examining flat surfaces with a magnifying glass, and he came upon some numbers on the narrow flange where a blade would enter the hub. After fiddling with the angle of the light, I was able to get a pretty good picture. The letters WP are stamped into the flange, and just to the right there is a little number 4 inside a circle. See attached picture. Pardon my finger in the picture.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the update. Tricky. It certainly looks as though that hub should have readable numbers, but they are not easy to reveal. Of course, sometimes they are lost to bad rust.
Nice work on finding the stamps on that flange. That face is the front of the Hub, where the prop retaining nut fits onto the stub shaft. That flange is actually for the spinner internal diaphragm support to fit on to with its circular paxolin/rubber ring fitting.

I still hope that your exploration of these details will give more details. As I said, it is worth doing more looking at the Flugellagerung (Blade fittings), as you have already found some serial numbers there. There are of course 3 of those, so more chances that numbers are still recoverable, and they can be conclusive for ID-ing the Hub application. They can be tricky to find, as you know!

Cheers

Chris

 

[Engineman]

Hello Engineman -- I have two things to tell you

1. I looked at photo 5/6, and found what you think are the numbers 12. I then spent some time "editing" the picture to make those numbers more clear. Have a look at the attached picture. Then I printed that picture an took it to the museum to match it with the prop hub to look at the numbers "live". I located what I believe to be the area where the picture was taken. You can tell from the surrounding paint and corrosion. My conclusion is that those are not real numbers stamped on the hub. They are (were?) just random dirt and corrosion. Just scratching the area with my fingernail makes stuff fall off. But there are no numbers 12 stamped into the hub.

2. However, we do have some real numbers that are quite clear. Joe Clegg was examining flat surfaces with a magnifying glass, and he came upon some numbers on the narrow flange where a blade would enter the hub. After fiddling with the angle of the light, I was able to get a pretty good picture. The letters WP are stamped into the flange, and just to the right there is a little number 4 inside a circle. See attached picture. Pardon my finger in the picture.

Larry

Hi Larry,

I may be unable to reply for the next few days, so Good-Hunting!
In the meantime, here is an original VDM illustration of the official positions for different ID stamps. There are other possibilities, of course!

Cheers

Eng