Lockheed Hudson MkIII

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Hudson MkIII, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Hudson MkIII

    Hudson MkIII New Member

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    Hello to Everyone

    I've only been a member here for a short time, I've spent a bit of time reading the lengthy threads here, some started in 2004 and are still going!
    I'm like everyone else here, I have a healthy interest in warbird history due in part to my grandfather who was a pilot in the RNZAF during WWII.
    I have been trying to research his flying career which has been a great project so far but I'm having trouble finding accurate performance information on the Hudson MkIII, there is a lot of conflicting information out there.
    Does anyone out there have a reliable source that could provide all the vital stats of this aircraft?
    I've seen published that the max bomb-load is 1600lbs, but at the local AF Museum they state 998lbs as max.
    I've got several figures for max speed which range from 223mph to 275mph, it can be a frustrating exercise.:confused:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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  3. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    The 1600lbs figure is commensurate with a single torpedo. I'm sure that such a load would necessarily compromise other mission capabilities (fuel, armament, range, etc).
     
  4. Daviducus2

    Daviducus2 Member

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    #4 Daviducus2, Jul 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
    The link is busted.

    I don't know but I bet 275mph is way too fast for that bird. I wonder if she could make 250mph.

    A USAAF A-29 became the first USAAF aircraft to destroy an enemy submarine when it sank U-701 on July 7, 1942.
    http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a28_17.html
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Hello and welcome! I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Hudson, for no particular reason, and always think it never seems to get the recognition it deserves, given its service in the RAF and Commonwealth Air Forces.
    I'm afraid I'm probably not going to be much help, as the only info I have covers the Mk1 and Mk VI, but it might be of use.
    Speeds for the MK1 are given at 216 mph at 6,500 feet, with a cruising speed of 170 mph. Service ceiling 22,000 ft.
    The MkVI is shown as 284 mph max at 15,000 feet, service ceiling of 24,500 ft. No cruising speed shown.
    The Mk1 bomb load was 750 lb, with the MkVI as 1,000 lb.
    I think the load at 998lbs for the MkIII is probably correct, given the above figures. As the MkIII used the 1,200hp Cyclones, I'd guess the max speed would be in the region of 250mph to 275 mph, falling between that of the 1,000hp Cyclones of the Mk1 and the 1,200hp P&W Twin Wasps of the MkVI.
    I hope this hasn't confused the issue too much!
    Perhaps an e-mail to the Research Dept of the RAF Museum might turn up further info. They can be contacted on-line, and, for simple requests, try to reply within 21 days. Might be worth a try?
    Cheers,
    Terry.
     
  6. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Airframes may be right. Perhaps the payload citation is being confused with the Ventura?
     
  7. Hudson MkIII

    Hudson MkIII New Member

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    Thank you for your fast replies.

    Airframes, that is a good suggestion, I will get in touch with RAF Museum. I have a real soft spot for the Hudson as well, when I first laid eyes on it I thought it was the ugliest thing in the skies but after researching and seeing the roles it was employed in, and of course with the family connection I now see it through beer goggles.

    Matt308, I thought that 1600lbs was a bit of an ambitious statement when I read it, but I have seen it in at least 2 publications under Lockheed Hudson, mind you they could be getting their info from the same source. After reading Airframes' post I think I can take the 998lbs as the correct figure.
     
  8. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Don't discount an ability for the Hudson to carry 1600lbs (1 torp). It might not have been the nominal ops loadout, but I suspect that it may have been capable.

    Think of the B-17. It had a rather large bombload capability (15,000lbs + in overload). But typical ops load was more likely 4000lbs or so with the ranges required for its typical Germany ops.
     
  9. Bernhart

    Bernhart <b>2012 Forum Fantasy Football Champion</ b>

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    I believe it was one of the first aircraft to do the transatlantic flights
     
  10. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    G'day mate! I won't add anything, I think Terry and Matt have summed it up pretty well already, but welcome to the forum in any case!

    I'm in the same boat with the Hudsons - mostly ugly, yet somehow 'interesting' design, and a vital piece of equipment for the RNZAF until the Venturas became available... Which squadron did your grandfather serve in, by the way?

    Evan
     
  11. Hudson MkIII

    Hudson MkIII New Member

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    Hello A4K

    He did one tour with 9 GR and one with 3 GR Squadrons while overseas.
     
  12. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    Cheers mate! Would you be keen to write up a small profile of his career in the RNZAF? I'd say a few of us would be interested.
     
  13. Hudson MkIII

    Hudson MkIII New Member

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    Sure thing, its a very interesting story, well for me anyway. I've got quite a bit of info and a copy of his logbook, I'm in the middle of writing something up for the extended family.
    I have a photo with him and the local AF pilots with Charles Kingsford Smith when he was doing his tour of NZ in the Southern Cross.

    Are you a Kiwi A4K?
     
  14. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good mate! ..And a photo with charles Kingsford Smith aswell..!!

    Yep, I'm a kiwi, but have been living overseas for the last 15 years or so (In Hungary for the last 8 ). Sill got some scattered family there in Wanganui, Tauranga, and Paraparaumu.

    Whereabouts are you?
     
  15. Hudson MkIII

    Hudson MkIII New Member

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    I'm in Canterbury, been here for 8 or so years, was in Southland for 15yrs.
    You maybe haven't heard that they finally closed the Wigram airfield a few months ago. A real shame, it was still being used for flight training and parachute jumps. Its going to be a housing development now.
     
  16. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    I heard that...very sad news...

    Which part of Canterbury and Southland? Daniel ('109 Roaming') is a Christchurch lad.
    I've lived in Blenheim myself (at Woodbourne), Christchurch on three ocassions (including a stint at Wigram), and Queenstown, North Isalnder by birth though.
     
  17. river

    river Member

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    #17 river, Jul 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
    Hi,

    I too have a soft spot for the Hudson. It was a good and well liked aircraft and it's service early in the war was invaluable.

    It was an RAF Hudson that shot down the first enemy aircraft of WW2. F/Lt Womersley of 224 squadron, flying Hudson N7217 shot down a Dornier Do-18 at 7:05am on the 8th of October 1939. The Do-18 landed in the sea and the crew got onto a dinghy. They were picked up by the Dutch ship "Teddy".

    N7217 was shot down by ME-109s over Stavanger on the 15th June 1940.

    I have some techncial data, but it is for the Mk I and II.
    Gross weight - 17,500lbs
    fuel capacity - 536 gallons
    max climb rate - 2,180ft/min
    service ceiling - 25,000ft (at full load)
    take off distance at sea level with no wind - 903ft
    operating speed at 10,000ft - 159knots (183mph)
    endurance at operating speed - 11hrs
    single engine ceiling - 11,000ft
    high speed on one engine - 149knots (179mph)
    max never-exceed speed - 291knots
    max cruising spped - 208knots
    max speed with flaps down - 100knots
    max speed lowering undercarriage - 125knots
    max airspeed dropping flares - 148knots

    Bombload varied up to 1,200lbs. Typically on anti-submarine operations, 4 x 250lb depth-charges were carried, with the possibility of 2 x 100lb bombs. The flying details for 59 Squadron, which took part in the 1000 bomber raid to Bremen, shows some Hudsons carrying 4 x 250lb bombs and others carrying 10 x 100lb bombs.

    I'll check some of my other meterial and see what i can find, if you're interested.

    river

    okay.. found some specs for the MkIII.. but as usual, it could muddle things rather than clear them up..
    max speed - 252mph @ 15,000ft
    max cruise - 196mph @ 10,000ft
    economical cruise - 155mph @ 10,000ft
    time to 10,000ft - 8 minutes
    service ceiling - 25,000ft
    range with max bombload - 780 miles
    range with max fuel - 1,355 miles
    max bombload - 1,600lbs (comprising of 4x 250lb and 6 x 100lb bombs)

    The info I have mentions the RNZAF Hudson squadrons, along with the commanders names and where the squadrons were based, and serial numbers for the aircraft.
     
  18. renrich

    renrich Active Member

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    From an ancient book, "Aircraft of World War II,) by Kenneth Munson: Lockheed A-29- Vmax is 253 MPH at 15000 feet, max range is 2800 miles, up to 1400 pounds of bombs.
     
  19. DBII

    DBII Active Member

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    WELCOME to the site. Nice photo

    DBII
     
  20. davparlr

    davparlr Well-Known Member

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    From "American Combat Planes", a Lockheed PV0-1, which I believe is similar to the Hudson Mark IV with 1200 hp engines, performance is as follows:

    Top speed 262 mph at 15.3k ft., 237 mph at SL
    empty wt 12, 680 lbs,
    gross wt 18,800 lbs
    max wt 20,200 lbs
    range 1750 miles with four 325 lb dept charges, 1800 miles max.
     
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