Memorial day

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by Marcel, May 5, 2013.

  1. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday, the 4th of May was our memorial day. We remember the casulties of ww2 and since the '60ies also the casulties of all wars since.
    Naturally there is an argument about this, we would not be Dutch if it was any other way. The Jewish comunity says it should only be about WW2 because the current more general memorial is an insult to them. The other argument is about if we should remember the Germans as well. There were threads to a group that wanted to include the graves of some german soldiers in route of the march.

    This all makes me sad. This is my view: The rememberance is meant so that everyone will remember. We remember the death so that it will never happen again. Excluding anyone means more anger and prologation of hatred and is not in the spirit of this day. We should remember all victims of war be them Dutch, American, German, Japanese, being it in Ww2, Vietnam or Afghanistan. If we stay with he hatred and anger, then all these victims have suffered and died in vain. Their sacrifice will have been in vain and here would be no point in remembering at all.
    Yesterday I tried to think of all war victims around the world wih no exception.

    Sorry guys, that was my emotional response and had to have it off my chest.
     
  2. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I agree. I believe our Memorial started as an honor for the dead of one war but has come to mean anyone who fought in any war.

    :salute:
     
  3. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Any time a person is called up to arms for thier country, they are making a sacrifice, whether thier government is right or wrong.

    They should be remembered regardless of the flag they served under...this is not to say that we should glorify the evil people that committed atrocities against thier victims: the leaders and thier fanatics that carried out those atrocities, but the rather the soldiers that had to march off to war because of those leaders...

    They are the ones who should be honored because they carried the burden on thier shoulders and suffered the hardships and ultimately paid the extreme price of war all in the hopes of a better world...and it is our responsability that we remember those sacrifices to shape our future, so that they didn't die in vain.

    Anyone who wishes to change the truths, exclude one group or another or even denying thier existance, is cheapening those sacrifices and has not learned the lesson that those sacrifices have offered and will leave the door open to repeat history all over again.
     
  4. Readie

    Readie Well-Known Member

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    'they carried the burden on thier shoulders and suffered the hardships and ultimately paid the extreme price of war all in the hopes of a better world...and it is our responsability that we remember those sacrifices to shape our future, so that they didn't die in vain'

    Wise words Dave and very true.
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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  6. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    A-Fricken-men!

    :salute:
     
  7. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    It is the Veteran


    It is the Veteran, not the preacher, who has given us freedom of religion.

    It is the Veteran, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the Veteran, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the Veteran, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to assemble.

    It is the Veteran, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.

    It is the Veteran, not the politician, who has given us the right to vote.

    It is the Veteran, who salutes the Flag,

    It is the Veteran, who serves under the Flag,

    To be buried by the flag,

    So the protester can burn the flag.
     
  8. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    But it's not only about the veterans, although they deserve our admiration and gratitude. But next to the veterans, it's also about innocents, the people in Rotterdam, London, Berlin or Hirochima. The people dying of hunger, caught between two fires, the ones that went to camps. The Jews, the Gipsies, the handicapped, the children. All victims. They are all important. They are the reason why war should stop, why hatred should stop, and why we should always remember.
     
  9. Readie

    Readie Well-Known Member

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    It should Marcel...but, I have a horrible feeling that the human race 'elf destruct' button was pressed a long time ago and things will never really ever change.
     
  10. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    probably not, but that shouldn't stop us from trying. The one thing we can do to help is keep the memory alive, show respect and hope. If we could do that in harmony, it would set a great example to the rest of the world. If everyone would do that for one day (and stop the silly argueing about it) the world would be just a little better.
     
  11. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I really admire your ideals and morals Marcel. I like to share them.

    Unfortunately there are enough people in the world who do not...
     
  12. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    As Chris says Marcel a wonderful thought but I have to side with George Orwell:

    Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
     
  13. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I'm absolutely not so naive as to think that we will solve anything in the grand scheme. Still, remembering on a day like the 4th of may serves it's purpose. It teaches us all that war is not just blazing guns and glory and not anything like a videogame, but about real people really suffering and dying. If even one kid starts realising this because of memorial day, than the day already served it's purpose.
    I fully recognise what these vetrans have done and what soldiers still do for our freedom. But I think I just refuse to become cynical and hope their sacrifice will not have been vain.
     
  14. gumbyk

    gumbyk Well-Known Member

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    Its after reading about things like your post, Marcel, that I'm proud to be a kiwi. we don't generally have that sort of attitude down here.
    Maybe its got something to do with Gallipoli, and our links forged with Turkey from this.

    Ataturk, 1934
     
  15. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Marcel, there was a moving article on the internet edition of the BBC News yesterday, which I'll try to post elsewhere later, describing one (Dutch) man's lifetime aim, to raise a memorial to a lost RAF pilot, who crashed and was killed in 1941. This man, then a boy of four years, saw the crash and, ever since, has tended the grave.
    It's good to see, and even better to know, that decent people, across the World, still remember and honour the fallen, of all sides, from all wars. And that's how it should be, if only to just minimise conflicts, if not prevent them.
    Unfortunately, there are fanatics in this World who are not decent people, burned up with illogical hatred that even they don't understand, who will always attempt to instigate further conflicts.
    Let us hope that we, the free thanks to the lost, can continue to remember, so that the likes of World War 2 will never happen again.
     
  16. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    I think that all that can be said has been said, but I'll add my two cents.

    I believe that the group that wants to add the graves of the Germans to the memorial should. It's been 70 plus years since WWII, and part of the healing process is to forgive. Let the ones who committed those terrible crimes be scorned as they should. This applies to all conflicts as Marcel has stated. Whenever I write letters to the editor, I try to include a small message for the readers to remember those lost on both sides.

    Anyway, Those are my feelings, and if I confused anybody I apologize.
     
  17. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    a little history about our ( the us ) memorial day....

    General Order
    No. 11
    Headquarters, Grand Army of the Republic
    Washington, D.C., May 5, 1868

    I. The 30th day of May, 1868, is designated for the purpose of strewing with flowers or otherwise decorating the graves of comrades who died in defense of their country during the late rebellion, and whose bodies now lie in almost every city, village, and hamlet churchyard in the land. In this observance no form or ceremony is prescribed, but posts and comrades will in their own way arrange such fitting services and testimonials of respect as circumstances may permit.

    We are organized, comrades, as our regulations tell us, for the purpose, among other things, "of preserving and strengthening those kind and fraternal feelings which have bound together the soldiers, sailors, and marines who united to suppress the late rebellion." What can aid more to assure this result than by cherishing tenderly the memory of our heroic dead, who made their breasts a barricade between our country and its foe? Their soldier lives were the reveille of freedom to a race in chains, and their death a tattoo of rebellious tyranny in arms. We should guard their graves with sacred vigilance. All that the consecrated wealth and taste of the Nation can add to their adornment and security is but a fitting tribute to the memory of her slain defenders. Let no wanton foot tread rudely on such hallowed grounds. Let pleasant paths invite the coming and going of reverent visitors and found mourners. Let no vandalism of avarice or neglect, no ravages of time, testify to the present or to the coming generations that we have forgotten, as a people, the cost of free and undivided republic.
    If other eyes grow dull and other hands slack, and other hearts cold in the solemn trust, ours shall keep it well as long as the light and warmth of life remain in us.

    Let us, then, at the time appointed, gather around their sacred remains and garland the passionless mounds above them with choicest flowers of springtime; let us raise above them the dear old flag they saved from dishonor; let us in this solemn presence renew our pledges to aid and assist those whom they have left among us as sacred charges upon the Nation's gratitude,--the soldier's and sailor's widow and orphan.

    II. It is the purpose of the Commander-in-Chief to inaugurate this observance with the hope it will be kept up from year to year, while a survivor of the war remains to honor the memory of his departed comrades. He earnestly desires the public press to call attention to this Order, and lend its friendly aid in bringing it to the notice of comrades in all parts of the country in time for simultaneous compliance therewith.

    III. Department commanders will use every effort to make this order effective.

    By command of:
    JOHN A. LOGAN,
    Commander-in-Chief
     
  18. kato333

    kato333 New Member

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    Hello dude..I totally agree with you..thanks for sharing...
     
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