Messerschmitt Me410

Discussion in 'Aircraft Pictures' started by Snautzer01, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    Autobahn near Munich

    me410_20a.jpg
     
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  2. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    The atmosphere in that shot...looks like twilight...nice
     
  3. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    the GI driving couldnt care less so to see. Injured left hand, no helmet
     
  4. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Or the camo fooled him completely :D

    Geo
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Judging by the dead trees against the '410, it's presumably been abandoned there for some time - either that, or some Luftwaffe chappy didn't obey the rules of using natural vegetation as camouflage !
    It would make an interesting model diorama.
     
  6. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    What makes it a 410 and not a 210?
     
  7. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    The 4.....I'll get Terry's coat.

    Geo

    Sorry, couldn't resist, two sleepless nights
     
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  8. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Good shot! Thanks for sharing.
     
  9. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    Me410A-3 Me410A-3, WNr.10259, F6+OK, 2(F)/AufklGr122 became TF209. Note 'P" applied to aircraft types for which there were no 'Pilots Notes'.

    me410_06.jpg

    me410_21.JPG
     
  10. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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  11. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Is that what the P was for? I always thought it stood for prototype, but I guess that might be one and the same huh?
     
  12. Snautzer01

    Snautzer01 Well-Known Member

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    Yes prototypes dont have pilot notes too.
     
  13. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    #13 GrauGeist, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    The photo in post #1 is remarkable.

    It looks to me like a long-shutter shot on an evening with a full moon to the photographer's back. The Jeep is parked and I'm going to bet that the driver was waiting for the photographer to quit fooling around so they could get going.

    Without being able to see the longer fuselage to be certain, we can pretty much be sure it's a 410 if this was in Bavaria late war (or post war) as the majority of the 210s were in Hungarian service along eastern front areas.
     
  14. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Assumed, yes. Assured, no.
     
  15. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I think the colour photo was actually taken in full daylight, probably using Kodachrome 25. Depending on the time of year, and I suspect around late May or mid June, then the photo was taken between approximately 11.00 am and 2.00 pm, with the sun almost directly overhead.
    What appear at first sight to be stars I believe are actually just spots on the print made from the original transparency, there are also white 'spots' on the trees. The saturation of sky tones has been affected either by exposure during the printing stage, or by degradation of the latent image over time', or a deliberate 'dodging' during printing for effect.
    Look at the colour tones of the dead trees used as camouflage, the tones of the foliage in the 'shadow areas' of the forest, and at the strong shadows under the Jeep, compared to the road surface. This suggests strong light, from virtually directly overhead, as there is minimal elongation of the shadows.
    Also, the skin tones of the driver are not those to be expected with a dusk or early night-time exposure, and there is no tonal change to the 'known' neutral colours, such as the serial number on the Jeep and the spirals on the aircraft's spinners..
     
  16. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Well, you got me thinking (scary, yes) and while doing so, seemed to recall that there was another photo, quite similar, with a guy in a jeep looking at an abandoned Me262 along the highway.

    So I did a little digging around and "Voila!!"

    9KFH_111685[720].jpg

    Here's a photo of an Me262 of Jv44 taken along the Salzburg-Munich Autobahn, in the Hofoldinger Forest area.

    Note the guy in the jeep...the same jeep as in the Me410 photo (US Army s/n 2084641). Also notice the camouflage is as dead as the branches covering the Me410.

    Also, this Me262 (WkNmr 111685) was originally assigned to Kg51 as 9K+FH...

    On 8May 1943, I./Kg51 was converted to Me410 aircraft and eventually acquired Me262 fighter/bombers after being relocated on the Western front. It appears that Jv44 operated alongside Kg51 (and any other surviving units), as Jv44's last area of operations were the Salzburg area, which is most likely the reason why Kg51's Me262 was in Jv44's service at the end.

    So I feel pretty sure that the aircraft in the first photo is a Me410.

    * And Terry, I think you're right. Perhaps they attempted to get more detail out of the image, as the other color images I've seen seem to be over-contrasted (washed out).
     
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  17. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I've seen variations of angle, and quality of exposure, on both the Me262 and Me 410 photos. The overall appearance, contrast and saturation of the print would depend on its origination - direct print, or via an interneg, and, of course, on the generation of reproduction - whether an original reproduction, or a copy of a copy of a copy, and so on.
     
  18. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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  19. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I believe the P did stand for 'prototype' generally. Unfamiliar German types (for which pilot's notes were surely available in post war testing) were similarly and distinctively marked, typically with yellow undersides.

    Pilot's note's, the vast majority being relevant, were certainly available for these two 'P' marked aircraft.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I suppose the pilot could ignore the section on the undercarriage of the Spitfire float plane. The system was removed to save weight, so he'd never have found the controls :)

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  20. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Excellent detective work! Both of you!
     
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