Meteor, 262 or P-80, if you had to fight in a '45 Jet which would you pick?

[pinehilljoe]

If you had to pick a jet in 45, which would you pick. All had teething troubles of first generation jet aircraft. From my reading the Meteor may have been the most reliable.

 

[davebender]

Me-262 was most refined of the three as of April 1945. So it's the obvious choice

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Sounds like I'm splitting hairs but when in 1945? Improvements in all 3 jets were happening pretty quickly, for example a "December 1945" P-80 was a bit more reliable than one built earlier in the year. I would say the same can be said for the Meteor as well.

If you're talking April 1945 I think the 262 was the better aircraft of the three.

 

[fastmongrel]

None of the three were aotstandingly better than the others. As a fighter I would go for the P80, As a bomber interceptor the 262 and for all round general not outstanding but good enough preformance and reliability I would go Meteor.

Personally I would go for the Vampire it was hands down the most manouverable, had the best thrust to weight ratio and throttle response, best handling at altitude, but had problems in the early versions with snaking caused by a mismatch in the size of the ailerons and rudders making the plane difficult to aim steadily.

 

[soulezoo]

I have to agree with FBJ and davebender above.

Really the drawback to the 262 at that time was more engine reliability than anything. Given a decent engine I think it becomes head and shoulders above the other two just from the aspect of design advancement and refinement.

 

[Kryten]

I would go for the Meteor as it's more likely to remain flyable if you get into a fight and have to throttle it up!

 

[airminded88]

I am inclined to choose the 262 as it was to a certain degree combat proven by Apr '45.
When working properly they were quite effective notwhistanding the unsurmountable Allied opposition by that phase of the war.

 

[parsifal]

I would choose the 262, since statistically it would never have to fly. It remained grounded most of the time, partly for lack of fuel, and partly because of the appalling serviceability rates its was labouring under. When you have some hundreds in service, and about 5-10 serviceable on a good day as a 262 pilot you've got a pretty safe existence I would think. Until the Russians caught you that is.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I would go for the Meteor as it's more likely to remain flyable if you get into a fight and have to throttle it up!

Is that your opinion or do you have data to back that up?

 

[pinehilljoe]

Richard Bong and Milo Burcham were killed in the P-80, arguably as good as any pilot in the world at the time. If you read, A Higher Call, by Larry Anderson, the book contains first hand accounts by Franz Stigler on flying the 262. The 262 had its share of issues and it was flown by some of the best pilots Germany had, Stigler, Galland, Steinhoff. Steinhoff was nearly killed in a 262 from a tire blowout.

I haven't found accounts of the Meteor development tests or the early operations, anyone have a resource they can point to?

 

[davparlr]

April, '45, I would agree with FLYBOYJ, the Me 262 was a slightly more tested aircraft but marginal over all but the one to select, the P-80 needed few months more work, and the I think the Meteor III was just too slow. Assuming that all three aircraft were reasonably mature, I would select the P-80. Performance is pretty equivalent to the Me 262 but its centrifugal engine would be more rugged than the axial Me's. The Meteor is still too slow.

 

[The Basket]

Ar-234.
The 262 and the Meteor were in bad shape if an engine failed on take off.
The Meteor didn't do that very well. Although it's said more jets were lost training for engine failure than an actual engine failure.

 

[davparlr]

Ar-234.
The 262 and the Meteor were in bad shape if an engine failed on take off.
The Meteor didn't do that very well. Although it's said more jets were lost training for engine failure than an actual engine failure.

So was the P-80!

 

[GrauGeist]

Ar234 wasn't a fighter...all it could do, was run from a bounce.

 

[fastmongrel]

Ar234 wasn't a fighter...all it could do, was run from a bounce.

Probably would have made a good all weather/night fighter

 

[GrauGeist]

Probably would have made a good all weather/night fighter

They had two Ar234B-2 modified with a gunpod (two MG151/20 cannon) and FuG218 radar, operating from March 45 onward. Neither scored a kill as they proved completely unsuitable as a fighter.

 

[fastmongrel]

They had two Ar234B-2 modified with a gunpod (two MG151/20 cannon) and FuG218 radar, operating from March 45 onward. Neither scored a kill as they proved completely unsuitable as a fighter.

What were the problems with it as a nightfighter its not an aircraft I know anything about other than through wiki.

 

[awack]

What were the problems with it as a nightfighter its not an aircraft I know anything about other than through wiki.

the test pilot said it had too many reflections and glare in the cockplt due to all the plexiglass.

Other than that, it was found to be very fast in clean configuration, parachute cord removed, no racks under engine pods and no perascope, in this condition UK test gave it a speed of 475 mph an US test showed a speed of 483 mph.

 

[GrauGeist]

There were three Ar234s modified to be night fighters, one crashed and killed the crew. The one that crashed was a modified Ar234B-1 (WkNmr 140145) piloted by Hauptmann Josef Bisping, Htpm Albert Vogel was his crewman.

The other two Ar234B-2/N (WkNmrs 140150 & 140608) under the command of Hauptmann Kurt Bonow operated without incident until the end of the war.

The Ar234B-2/Ns were most certainly fast, but they could not maneuver into position to intercept the Mosquitoes and the rate of closure was too fast to be effective against Lancasters and other RAF bombers.

Of all the sorties they flew, they never once scored a victory.

 

[The Basket]

The Ar-234 from what I read had very safe handling in comparison to a Me262.
If I was in a fight against P-51s no problem as if I was cruising then the Mustangs are going backwards! Same with Mosquito as if the Blitz can't intercept a Mossie then it's the same the other way round.
Also the Blitz was...for obvious reasons...never designed beyond 1945 so could have gone further.
To fight in this context to me is any combat mission. Whether recon or bombing as a fight of survival so the Arado to me is included as a contemporary of the 262.