Mosquito FBVI v. Fw190 dogfight

[Alnwick]

To return to the original post, later in the war many Mosquitoes were fitted with paddle-bladed propellors, resulting in a significant increase in the RoC (a la the P47). If (as Jabberwocky suggests) the aircraft in question had the more powerful engines, plus the paddle-blades it would almost certainly have been able to outclimb an Fw190, which was not outstanding in this regard compared to the Spitfire or Bf109.

Additionally, Coastal Command Strike Wings often used their Mosquito VI's as fighter escorts when Spitfires or Mustangs were not available, and they appear to have more-or-less held their own against German fighters, achieving a roughly 1:1 exchange rate judging by post-war analysis.

 

[Mick]

They were attacked by Fw190's and Me109's from Gallant's J26 'Schlageter' Geschwader at Abbeville base and, according to my research, probably a good few of them were put up against the returning Mosquitos and no more than eight Typhoon escorts (according to two sources). Once source even gives three Typhoon squadrons, 198, 174 and 245, as making up a total of twenty-two Typhoons, being tasked with escort duties. Another source, more reliably, puts the original number of Typhoons as twelve. So the weather forced four Typhoons to turn back. Fourteen Mosquito's, including a PRU, survived the weather and engine trouble to attack the prison out of an initial force of nineteen aircraft.

 

[Gixxerman]

I've heard of deliberately stalling aircraft

Mick

I'm no help at all in this, sorry.

But I just have to say, you have just given me the most wonderful little sequence in my mind's eye of a Mossy in the early/mid 40's pulling a 'cobra' move on a 190.
Bl**dy marvelous.

.....well it's had me chucking this afternoon, so thanks for that.

 

[mhuxt]

I'm afraid the whole account is purest fiction.

Opert\ation Jericho, as it came to be known, is a well known episode and none of what is described above actually took place. The raid leader's Mossie was lost to 190s, another to flak. I believe another was shot up by Fws but escaped. No Mossie pilot claimed to have shot down a 190.

Sorry to disppoint.

 

[Elmas]

Something similar to a dogfight between Mosquitoes and 190's is fictionally described here,

the Mosquito was a Mk XVI, if I remember well.

here you can find some news about the Pilot

GUEDJ Max Alias Maurice

Véronique Chemla: Max Guedj (1913-1945), héros méconnu de la France libre

Cheers

 

[Edgar Brooks]

There were 6 Mosquitoes of 21 Squadron, 7 from 487 Squadron, and 5 from 464, plus a photographic aircraft, and Typhoons of 174 198 Squadrons (although 198 only arrived after the attack, due to bad weather.) 487 464 did the work, with 21 not being needed. Pickard was shot down by Hans Mayer of 7.JG 26, and Walter Radener (same Staffel) got one of the two Typhoons lost by 174. There appears to be no record of a Mosquito shooting anyone down.
There is, by the way, a new book, on the raid, which is (allegedly, I haven't yet read it and can't remember the title) at odds with the accepted version; at around £30, it might be some time before I get it.

 

[Mick]

Hi Gixxerman

What's a cobra move when it's at home?

Mick

 

[Mick]

Thanks, Edgar I'll look that book up.

Mick

 

[Mick]

Thanks, Elmas for your contribution.

Mick

 

[Mick]

Still for the purposes of a screenplay, narrative license always has to come before the fact. I think as long as the film is faithful to the general truth of the story then, in this case, a Mossie shooting down a Fw190 for dramatic effect (since it isn't impossible) is more than acceptable – I may not use it anyway.

Thanks, mhuxt.

Mick

 

[Mick]

Thanks, Alnwick.

This is interesting. I think as long as something that happens in the film isn't actually impossible then having a Mossie turning the tables on an Fw190 is quite acceptable. After all a film doesn't have to be an historically accurate account of everything that actually happened – that's the role documentaries perform.

Mick

 

[Mick]

Quite, Timpaa.

See my replies to mhuxt and Alnwick. I was really trying to understand what the author was describing with his description of the dogfight. It seems it might have been fiction anyway!

Mick

 

[wuzak]

Hi Gixxerman

What's a cobra move when it's at home?

Mick

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgHoBDW56CI


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ_ds1SgBG0 (at about 1:05)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mN9ZAfadpE

I don't think he was actually attempting to land using a cobra manouevre.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GdfnTLKcvM

And we bought Hornets....

 

[Mick]

Thanks for the YouTube video links. Some of those manoeuvres are fantastic,. Didn't aircraft could even do some of those things. By the way, any idea how I get email notification alerts to new posts? I thought I'd done this in my profile.

Mick

 

[FLYBOYJ]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgHoBDW56CI


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ_ds1SgBG0 (at about 1:05)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mN9ZAfadpE

I don't think he was actually attempting to land using a cobra manouevre.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GdfnTLKcvM

And we bought Hornets....

Just so you know that Cobra maneuver is useless in combat, unless the guy doing it wants to commit suicide.

 

[Kryten]

handy for scrubbing airspeed so he can eject safely?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

handy for scrubbing airspeed so he can eject safely?

Probably about it.

 

[Kryten]

Have been reading "A Seperate Little War" by Andrew Bird,
It chronicles the activities of the Banf Strike Wing operating against the German occupation forces in Norway during the last nine months of the war.

Of interest to this thread are the air combats between Mosquito crews and Me109/FW190 over Norway, there are several in the book with losses on both sides, of particular note is the action on 15th Jan 1945 when an air battle was fought between the Mosquito's from Banf and the FW190's of 9 staffel JG5.

it appears the Mosquitos lost two aircraft to flak during the shipping strike (one taking a direct hit from an 88 on the run in) and three to Fw190's in the following air combat.
German losses were three FW190 (2xA8 Zeuner Wnr737410 and Lehnert Wnr350183, 1xA3 Helbing Wnr 0132172) only survivors of these losses were a Mossie crew who escaped to Gibraltar via Spain, all others perished unfortunatly.

this is straight from the book and I have no independant verification, there are several other combats noted and the book is very interesting if your looking for information on Coastal Command.

 

[Glider]

Thanks for the tip, just ordered one

 

[Marsteinen]

I have written about this and have several sources and eye witnesses as well as having met a cousin of one of the British air men. I will include it in a local war history book that I am currently working on.