aurelien wolff
Airman 1st Class
- 183
- Sep 20, 2018
For you?
Most overrated german plane?
- Thread starter aurelien wolff
- Start date
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GregP
Major
For me it is the Ta 152. The performance was excellent for a last-gen piston fighter, but not anything better than on par with all the last-gen Allied piston fighters. It was VERY good compared with the 1943 - 1944 fighter list, but so were ALL the last-gen pistons like the P-51H, P-47M/N, Tempest, Spitfire 21, Hornet, F8F-2 Bearcat, F7F Tigercat, and perhaps slipping in the Lavochkin La-9.
The Ta-152 has the distinction of being the best German piston fighter, to be sure (can't take that away from it), but was built in numbers too few to be of any wartime impact. It ALMOST made the war in decent numbers, but it was known as the Fw 190D-9 at the time, not as a Ta-152.
It's exactly like the Japanese Mitsubishi Ki-83, of which they only built 4 ... wonderful and interesting, but not of any impact due to non-participation and small numbers. At least the Germans managed to get the Ta-152 actually deployed and into combat! They get credit for that, anyway.
You'd never know it from the comments above, but I really LIKE the Ta-152. Liking it doesn't change its wartime impact, though.
The Ta-152 has the distinction of being the best German piston fighter, to be sure (can't take that away from it), but was built in numbers too few to be of any wartime impact. It ALMOST made the war in decent numbers, but it was known as the Fw 190D-9 at the time, not as a Ta-152.
It's exactly like the Japanese Mitsubishi Ki-83, of which they only built 4 ... wonderful and interesting, but not of any impact due to non-participation and small numbers. At least the Germans managed to get the Ta-152 actually deployed and into combat! They get credit for that, anyway.
You'd never know it from the comments above, but I really LIKE the Ta-152. Liking it doesn't change its wartime impact, though.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I have to go with the Me 163. For all it's hype and resources it consumed, it achieved very little.
I'd add the Stuka in the list. Impressive effect from Spain till France but during BoB its weak points became evident. But its fame continued...
I've mixed thoughts on the Uhu. I really like its design concept and I think that it was a good night fighter but I've never been able to determine if it was really better than the Ju 88G-6. Of course the Mosquito MF Mk 30 was the best night fighter in ETO
I've mixed thoughts on the Uhu. I really like its design concept and I think that it was a good night fighter but I've never been able to determine if it was really better than the Ju 88G-6. Of course the Mosquito MF Mk 30 was the best night fighter in ETO
I'm not sure that Stuka is over-rated, especially in the English-speaking world.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Not sure how the Germans were too dumb to develop the He219. It was designed around an engine that was troublesome, just like several Allied designs, and had to go with an alternate. The RLM also drug their feet in it's development including inhouse politics between Milch and Kammhuber, creating critical delays.
As it stands, the He219 was a good performing aircraft, well armed and faster than the Ju88 and Bf110 nightfighters.
Two different aircraft with a common ancestor. That is like saying that the P-51H was known as a P-51K.
I have to think about this one. They all had overrated aircraft. I just don't consider the Stuka or the He 219 to be one of them. I don't consider the Ta 152 either to be one. I certainly understand the arguments of those who do, and can see some validity to their points.
I think for me it is a toss up between the Me 163 and the He 177. Maybe even the He 111.
I think for me it is a toss up between the Me 163 and the He 177. Maybe even the He 111.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,020
- Jun 25, 2013
The Me.163 probably had negative value to the Luftwaffe, in that it consumed more resources than the bombers it might have shot down would have destroyed.
Absolutely agreed. In that sense however, you might as well throw in the Me 262 (I personally do not believe this aircraft was overrated), He 162, V1, V2, and anything else that was taking up valuable resources.
two points about projects taking up valuable resources. One Germany did not run out of guns, tanks or planes. They ran out of people to man them and fuel. Two every country had programs that were colossal waste of resources. The U.S. built a green field factory to build M7 tanks only to decide it was worse then the M4.
Shortround6
Major General
There is a difference between prototypes, either single or small numbers, and production programs of several hundred vehicles/aircraft that lead to little or no effective use.
The US M7 falls sort of in between. The factory certainly didn't sit idle, it produced over 7000 M5 Halftracks and other material.
The US M7 falls sort of in between. The factory certainly didn't sit idle, it produced over 7000 M5 Halftracks and other material.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The U.S. also had the uninterrupted industrial base, manpower and resources to engage in concepts and prototypes.
The Germans and the Japanese did not.
The Germans and the Japanese did not.
Question is overrated by who? The Germans themselves or British or Russians etc
The British do take a glee in "their" victory over Germany and attribute mythic level epic equipment problems as the reason Germany lost. When its probably as simple as too many fronts.
The squadron stats show the He219 scored no better than the Me110G during late 44! But it probably was the best German n.f. (apart from lack of 3rd crew man for spotting etc) but seems to have been developed in a ridiculous number of variants.
The British do take a glee in "their" victory over Germany and attribute mythic level epic equipment problems as the reason Germany lost. When its probably as simple as too many fronts.
The squadron stats show the He219 scored no better than the Me110G during late 44! But it probably was the best German n.f. (apart from lack of 3rd crew man for spotting etc) but seems to have been developed in a ridiculous number of variants.
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parsifal
Colonel
Can I be a Sh*tstirrer and suggest ...all of them.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
You'll find that overall, the people who are die-hard critics (over-rated/under-rated) of aircraft are the new-age gaming fans and/or persons who have a short grasp of the war overall.
Their quest for instant gratification on the digital "battlefront" excludes any real knowledge of why the aircraft came into being, what it's original design was intended for, where it was deployed, the politics and high-command decisions that affected the aircraft's deployment, what the historical quality and quantity of it's adversary was and so on.
Shortround6
Major General
I may be joining you in the bunker despite our past differences on this one Parsifal
language can be subtle thing. I would note that William Green had 4 books called "Famous _________ of World War II".
Not Best or Greatest or some other superlative.
Things are also not black and white, that is if a plane was not the best (or in the top 3) does NOT automatically demote it to rubbish. A number of planes were truly rubbish and deserve to keep that area for themselves. A large number of planes started as very good airplanes and were demoted to near rubbish by the passage of time, newer better planes came along and air combat is a harsh and unforgiving arena. Using less than the best at any given time means a higher loss/casualty ratio.
Or even just using much more fuel per ton of supplies moved.
Some planes followed something like a bell curve. They got better as time went on, for a few years and then, despite modifications/improvements they fell behind the advancing "standards" of the world stage. Are they to be judged on the earlier and/or mid career triumphs or on their late career struggles to stay effective.
Some planes performed very well in a somewhat limited arena, even doing a number of jobs, but would have failed miserably if forced to operate in a different theater of war than the one they made their name in. Think German or Russian aircraft trying to operate in the South Pacific or CBI theaters for instance.
Or Japanese planes trying to operate on the Russian front, their long range was not needed and the sacrifices made to get long range (light construction and light armament) would result in high losses and less target effect per plane/fuel/ground crew used.
A lot of german planes are overrated, that does not mean they were not effective at what they did or did not return good (but not great) value for the investment made in them. With the German proclivity of making scads of modifications to one airframe they are certainly a field day for modelers
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Any of the famous ones that never made it into the air or full scale production. He100, He112, Fw187, Ta152 or Ta183 spring to mind. The less they did the better they seem to be especially when equipped with experimental or concept engines that had astonishing power to weight ratios.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,020
- Jun 25, 2013
I think that diehard fanboys of Luftwaffe aircraft predate on-line games and even the Internet. Some of the fanboyism is definitely political, in that it is held by people who support Hitler's ideology.
