Mustang canopies.

packardpursuit · Sep 13, 2010

Aside from a few block numbers associated with particular featuures known (to me, anyway) , I'm not that into what blocks had what. I do know there is a note appearing on the Dorsal Fin Fillet (P-51B/C) assembly drawing stating the last 400 P-51C's were fitted with the DFF at the factory.

drgondog · Sep 14, 2010

packardpursuit said:
Aside from a few block numbers associated with particular featuures known (to me, anyway) , I'm not that into what blocks had what. I do know there is a note appearing on the Dorsal Fin Fillet (P-51B/C) assembly drawing stating the last 400 P-51C's were fitted with the DFF at the factory.

That was my first assumption but I had never seen a reference to the -11 in any document including Gruenhagen and the actual Group/Squadron histories. Th eonly reference to late C's were -10's in the Engineering sections.

Thx Charlie

MikeGazdik · Sep 23, 2011

I just want to say thank you to drgondog and packardpursuit, I haven't been on this site in a while, (due to life taking my time) but I have come back recently and have been "lurking". This has been a most educational thread, I thank you for your partisipation and both of you to share your knowledge and opinions. You both are enlightening and a gift to this website and the warbird community.

drgondog · Sep 25, 2011

Thank you Mike.

Charlie is an encyclopedia of configurations and details regarding all versions of the 51.

Bill

MikeGazdik · Sep 26, 2011

I have noticed in photos and when I was at "The Gathering of Mustangs" in Columbus, several different shapes of the canopy of the "D" and later Mustangs. Did the "D" models of different dash numbers have alternate canopies, or are these Dallas Vs California differences? I have been always curious of this.

jimh · Sep 26, 2011

The visibility from the C model is terrible until you get used to it. Once you figure out where to put your eyes you don't really notice the canopy frame much. I will say that the B/C canopy is extremely fragile. We taxi with the canopy shut at all times...when open it has been bent by propwash. I've flown the D as well and it is like sitting in an open cockpit...hands down, 100% better than the B/C.

jim

I made this video with a gopro camera...I still haven't gotten around to doing a proper edit.

drgondog · Oct 9, 2011

There were at least three versions of the D/K canopies - I don't think they were Inglewood/Dallas specific - but will research it.

Airframes · Oct 12, 2011

Bill, I don't know for sure, but the Dallas- built 'D' airframes had a canopy with a slightly higher tail, and a pronounced 'dip' towards the rear frame. These are mostly referred to as 'Dallas canopies', and are supposedly an outward distinguishing feature between Inglewood/Dallas production sources. ( Note, this canopy is not to be confused with the type used on the TF51 two-seat trainer, which, although similar in shape at the canopy tail, was larger and, I think, longer.)

drgondog · Oct 14, 2011

Airframes said:
Bill, I don't know for sure, but the Dallas- built 'D' airframes had a canopy with a slightly higher tail, and a pronounced 'dip' towards the rear frame. These are mostly referred to as 'Dallas canopies', and are supposedly an outward distinguishing feature between Inglewood/Dallas production sources. ( Note, this canopy is not to be confused with the type used on the TF51 two-seat trainer, which, although similar in shape at the canopy tail, was larger and, I think, longer.)

True Terry about the K NT series and D NT series at Dallas - but there were at least three factory mirror equipped canopy series. One - with no mirror, the second with a single mirror on a centerline mount, and the third an imbedded mirror which was streamlined and came with a lot of the later -25 models.

Also, of course, was the field modified twin spit mirrors mounted atop the windscreen.

Airframes · Oct 14, 2011

Ah, I see now. Thought you just meant the actual canopy shape. I do know that the first windscreens fitted with mirrors were done at unit level, using local, civilian sourced car mirrors. I think this started with the 4th FG. Later, this was made into a modification, carried out at BAD 1, Burtonwood, before the mirrors became factory fitted.

drgondog · Oct 21, 2011

The twin 'spitfire' mirrors were all field mods. The P-51D-15 (IIRC) was the first 51D with a factory mirror (single/attached to canopy - not windscreen)

MikeGazdik · Oct 27, 2011

Airframes said:
Bill, I don't know for sure, but the Dallas- built 'D' airframes had a canopy with a slightly higher tail, and a pronounced 'dip' towards the rear frame. These are mostly referred to as 'Dallas canopies', and are supposedly an outward distinguishing feature between Inglewood/Dallas production sources. ( Note, this canopy is not to be confused with the type used on the TF51 two-seat trainer, which, although similar in shape at the canopy tail, was larger and, I think, longer.)

Yes, this is what I am talking about. The canopies with the pronounced "dip" at the end.

drgondog · Apr 6, 2015

Airframes said:
Bill, I don't know for sure, but the Dallas- built 'D' airframes had a canopy with a slightly higher tail, and a pronounced 'dip' towards the rear frame. These are mostly referred to as 'Dallas canopies', and are supposedly an outward distinguishing feature between Inglewood/Dallas production sources. ( Note, this canopy is not to be confused with the type used on the TF51 two-seat trainer, which, although similar in shape at the canopy tail, was larger and, I think, longer.)

Terry - can you point to any source documentation for either (or both) the 85 gallon fuselage tank mod from the NAA supplied kits sent in December/January 1944, or the Malcolm Hood installation? The info I have says Warton 2AD was for B-24/P-51 and Burtonwood for B-17, P-47, P-38 Depot Mods after eceipt from Speke?

drgondog · Apr 6, 2015

Charlie - I just finished re-reading our exchange I noticed an important data factor missing to enhance our Static margin and moment arm for the horizontal Stabilizer.

The total Stab/elevator Area for the A/B/C/D/K =s 42.03 sq feet (I think) and the H = 48.35 sq ft. The combination of 14% increase in area combined with the extra length between the respective AC's of wing and tail are significant factors when calculation pitch stability - (both static and dynamic)

drgondog · Jun 7, 2015

packardpursuit said:
I heard the guy that did th e P-51D-5-NA drawing in book about Schmued is an ok dokie guy. I know for a fact, if he had to do them over again, he would have added something in the front view to make it look less anemeic!
Charlie

Charles Neely on page 123 - is a very good guy and very knowledgeable about the P-51 airframe

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