Nazi Gold Train - THE RESULTS!!!

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Thorlifter, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little sad, but not shocked......

    Results of big dig for Nazi "gold train" revealed

    WARSAW, Poland -- Explorers’ great hopes for finding a legendary Nazi “gold train” in Poland appeared dashed Wednesday when, after digging extensively, they admitted they have found “no train, no tunnel” at the site.

    The legend has sparked a gold rush, drawing in explorers and treasure hunters from across Europe to Poland’s southwestern town of Walbrzych, and prompting local authorities to dream about a great inflow of tourists and money.

    The local legend says in 1945, the Nazi Germans hid a train laden with gold and valuables in a secret tunnel nearby as they were fleeing the advancing Soviet army at the end of World War II.

    Last week two explorers - Andreas Richter, a German, and Piotr Koper, a Pole - moved in with heavy equipment and dug deep at a site near rail tracks in Walbrzych, following comments by residents who said they had knowledge of the train’s existence.

    Richter and Koper said last year that their own tests using earth-penetrating radar confirmed a train was at the site.

    But the explorers’ spokesman, Andrzej Gaik, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that they found “no train, no tunnel” there and that the machines were covering over the three pits that cost 140,000 zlotys ($37,000) to dig.

    Saying “hope dies last,” Gaik said a smaller-scale search using probes will resume at a nearby site in September.

    The dig confirmed findings by experts from a university in Krakow last year who used magnetic equipment but found no trace of train or tunnel, Gaik said.

    Historians say the existence of the train, which is said to have gone missing in May 1945, never has been conclusively proven. Polish authorities nonetheless have seemed eager to pursue any chance of recovering treasures that have sparked the imaginations of local people for decades.

    At the height of the frenzy last year, the World Jewish Congress reminded Poland’s authorities that, in the case of a discovery of a treasure-laden train, any valuables belonging to Jews killed in the Holocaust must be returned to their rightful owners or their heirs.

    Legend holds that an armed train loaded with treasure disappeared after entering a complex of tunnels under the Owl Mountains, a secret project known as “Riese” - or Giant - which the Nazis never finished.

    The area belonged to Germany at the time, but has been part of Poland since the borders were moved in the postwar settlement.

    A man credited with being the main living source of the legend is a retired miner, Tadeusz Slowikowski. He heard from a German man in the 1970s of a train that left the German city of Breslau (today Poland’s Wroclaw) in the spring of 1945, as the Soviet army approached. He said the man told him the train disappeared before ever making it to Waldenburg (now Walbrzych) some 45 miles to the west.

    However, a local historian, Pawel Rodziewicz, told The Associated Press last year that documentation leaves no doubt that gold in Breslau was evacuated to the German central bank in Berlin and elsewhere, so there would have been no reason to take any to Waldenburg, where the approaching Soviets could find it.

    He thinks it is impossible that a secret railway tunnel could have been built into the hill near railroad tracks in frequent use. No documents have ever been found to indicate such a project was undertaken, while documents exist even for the most top-secret projects of the Third Reich, including some for the subterranean tunnels beneath the Ksiaz Castle in Walbrzych, Rodziewicz argued.
     
  2. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    At least they followed their beliefs and stirred up interest. We must remember that there is still thousands of tons of gold, art and artefact's that are still missing from the Nazi pillage.
     
  3. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    A lot of that is unaccounted for rather than missing. A subtle distinction, but it is not lost. However, the people and institutions who have it are not about to tell the world. The bizarre case of Cornelius Gurlitt is just one case in point.

    I can hardly say I'm surprised at the results. If there was a train there it would have been found years ago. How many people would have known of its existence? Is it seriously possible that they would all have remained silent until the day they died? The Germans being German there would probably be a paper trail for it :)

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  4. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    If it is not lost, where is it then. There is no paper trail as like most things at the end of the war, as much paperwork was destroyed, why do you think there is little technical info on WW@ aircraft, most of it was destroyed either by bombing raids or burned as the allies approached. unaccounted for, a subtle distinction from missing, you have to be joking. If you know where all this booty and paperwork is, tell us, the world will make you famous. I am sure those that you say have it, are doing a great job of hiding it .Cornelius Gurlitt collection is only a drop in the bucket. How many people knew about the missing loot, if they were high ranking SS or Hitler inner circle, they probably were shot, took cyanide, or executed. The golden room alone would fill a few carriages in a train or many truck.
     
  5. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    #5 stona, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
    Who knows? Art becomes a sort of currency in the underworld, a lot simply gets destroyed. Large quantities of currency or gold? you could start by asking the Swiss, they won't give you an answer.

    Gurlitt had some drop in the ocean! Estimated at 1 billion euros it was probably worth a lot more than the gold supposed to be on the Polish train and, being in a Munich apartment, was probably easier to find.

    I agree that a lot of documentation was destroyed but an amazing amount survives, even about things you would not expect, the early efforts to cleanse Poland of its Jewish population or the minutes of the Wannsee Conference for example.

    This train is not the first 'Nazi treasure' to provoke such interest and it won't be the last. Some of the others have slightly less nebulous foundations. All involve a lot of wishful thinking and the wild extrapolation from known facts so beloved of conspiracy theorists, and all have amounted to exactly nothing.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  6. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to take into consideration, is how many "treasure trains" did NOT escape the roaming Allied aircraft that scoured the countryside in the final months of the war?

    There was no way to tell the difference what the cargo was from the air: supplies, troops, POWs or "treasure" - the only thing that these aircraft knew, was a target was on the move and reacted accordingly.

    So it's entirely possible that a train loaded with such items may have been obliterated and in the aftermath, valuable items that remained would not escape the attention of locals or troops in the area.
     
  7. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I suspect a lot of this stuff was destroyed, one way or another.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  8. at6

    at6 Well-Known Member

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    There may or may not be some truth in a treasure train. I watched a special some years ago about millions a counter fit British and American currency dumped in a lake in Europe and the crates holding the fake money were located proving the truth of the rumor. So you just never know, there may be something found one day. Just not there.
     
  9. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Of course that is perfectly true, but the list of treasures found since, say 1948, is a very, very short one. I think the incident you are thinking of was when millions of pounds in forged British banknotes were retrieved from a lake in the late '50s. They were worthless and the gold alleged also to have been dumped in the lake has yet to be found. :)
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  10. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    It's certainly possible to find some hoards - in the final months of the war, it was pretty much "every man for himself".

    It was about a year ago, that a buried stash of Nazi gold coins were found where a tree had been. They found that the coins had been in bank pouches, though only the bank seals remained. It was in the area of Lüneburg and they guy that discovered them got a small reward. I don't recall the value of the coins, but it was quite a bit.

    There's actually a good many "rumors" from the war about lost or hidden treasure - not just Axis, but Allied as well. There was a British cargo ship that was torpedoed by a U-Boat, that had a cargo of silver ingots on board, and I believe they recently found that by way of a deep-sea submersible.
     
  11. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    The Gold room alone from St Petersburg is worth over a billion euro, that's only one item. At the end if the war they found caves full of cash, gold teeth, art etc. worth millions back then which would be worth billions today.8 years ago I was in Moldova and we come across an old monastery which had been quarried out of limestone cut from inside a large hill in the same valley. It was only recently found a secret cavity that the monks hid in during the German occupation (4+years) and never found. It was full of the monastery religious treasures(including a 5 ton gold bell) which have now been restored back into the monastery. To hide from the military for the period of the war and the Russian occupation until the late 90s and not be found, the hiding of German war plunder is very possible and cannot be just dismissed. All possible links should be addressed, as this train was.
     
  12. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    I think you mean the amber room.
     
  13. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    same thing, its all gold
     
  14. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's not, the panels were cut from slabs of fossilized amber and trimmed in gold.
     
  15. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    semantics, don't forget the mirrors and candle. You have to learn when someone is using a generalised term. Next time I will get down to the minute details.
     
  16. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Don't get your panties in a wad...

    Jim referred to it by it's correct name.

    The Amber room was considered the 8th wonder of the world at the time, no one called it the "gold room".
     
  17. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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    Don't wear panties( them things are for girls). BTW it is also known as the Golden Drawing Room (reference your favourite research site , wiki). It is you who got perfectionist over general terms, but then who cares.
     
  18. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Beating the dead horse, are we?
     
  19. ww2restorer

    ww2restorer Active Member

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  20. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    By the way, your lame attempt at a reply brought up a good point.

    Your smartass comment about wiki is a nice little dig, but we don't usually use it here. But in your case, you might try wiki to learn more about the Bernsteinzimmer - it has pictures so you can keep up.
     
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