Nieuport-Delage 52 trivia

[LCharnes]

I'm looking for answers to three very nitpicky questions about the NiD 52.

1. Did the NiD have a self-starter?
2. Was there enough room in the cockpit for the pilot to wear a parachute?
3. I understand the NiD 52 was underpowered and a bit of a pig in the air. Was it too underpowered to be able to do more than basic aerobatic maneuvers when fully loaded?

I'm writing a sequence in a novel taking place at the El Prat airport outside Barcelona in late 1936. There were nine NiD 52s stationed there at the time, and my heroine is going to fly one of them without asking permission first. Can she get it started without external help? Also, later on, a NiD 52 pilot will be shot down. Could he have a parachute, or would it not fit?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Graeme]

1. Was there enough room in the cockpit for the pilot to wear a parachute?

Hi.
I'm thinking yes. Based on the very similar Nieuport-Delage 62 - No.49 is described as the "Back seat parachute pack."

 

[Wurger]

A bailing out pilot from a Nieuport-Delage 52 C.1 ...

the source: Nieuport-Delage NiD.52 C.1 : Nieuport

 

[LCharnes]

Great! Thanks to both of you.

 

[Wurger]

Oh .. I have forgotten ... I doubt the plane had the engine starter. I would say there had to be another guy who had to rotate the propeller.

 

[vikingBerserker]

That's a much easier way of exiting an aircraft

 

[LCharnes]

Oh .. I have forgotten ... I doubt the plane had the engine starter. I would say there had to be another guy who had to rotate the propeller.

Well, foo. I know that some of the later biplanes had a form of starter that involved hand-cranking (with a crank, not the prop), like on early cars. Any way to tell if the NiD-52 had something like that? The Spanish models were built 1930-3, so self-starters were around by then.

 

[elbmc1969]

Well, foo. I know that some of the later biplanes had a form of starter that involved hand-cranking (with a crank, not the prop), like on early cars. Any way to tell if the NiD-52 had something like that? The Spanish models were built 1930-3, so self-starters were around by then.

Normally, you'd look for a port on one side of the engine cowling.

 

[Wurger]

foo ? ... I hope it wasn't about me.

However the hand-cranking sounds good although I couldn't notice the crank slot in any images of the NiD 52 . Even if the start crank would be used it had to be done by another man outside of the the cockpit. Not sure what the guy was doing there but it might look like the hand cranking. Perhaps W waroff could help ....

the source: the net

The pic below reveals that the Spanish Ni-52s used the kind of a starter as well ...

the source: Spanish Civil War Republican Fighters

 

[elbmc1969]

L'Aéronautique | 1928-06-01 | Gallica

OK, so the NiD62 is specifically described as having a self-started. The description of the NiD52 on the following page doesn't mention one.

The original propeller hub would make the sort of car-mounted starter shown above impossible.

The guy in Wurger's upper photo isn't hand-cranking because the engine is going and he's not desperately trying to get the handle out.

 

[LCharnes]

Thanks to you both. (Wurger: "Foo" is just my all-purpose expression of disappointment in public.)

How about self-propping? As long as the wheel chocks are still in place and the mixture and magneto settings are more-or-less right, could the pilot prop him/herself, then pull the chocks once s/he is in or near the cockpit? I've seen some pretty long ropes on chock sets so the ground crews don't have to get under the plane when the engine's running.

 

[Wurger]

I would say we should wait for Waroff's coming. He may know if there was an engine starter of any type.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

It's funny - there's a discussion about starters on another thread.

LCharnes - to address your original question.

More than likely the NiD 52 operated by the Spanish during the civil war were probably started by an inertia starter or the set up shown in post #9 known as a "Huck's Starter." There are many photos showing I-15s and I-16s being started this way. IMO it is possible an aircraft like the NiD 52 could have been started by hand but it may be very difficult. The engine will have to warm, well primed, and achieve a good spark.

I've and propped a few aircraft in my time, the larger the engine, the more difficult. This caught my attention the other day...

 

[waroff]

The starter was a air system which injected air in cylinders through a carburetor and distributor.
The pressure push the piston and the engine turn, a specific magneto(starting magneto) allow the run of engine.
now it is possible to start engine by driven the propeller but not by crank(there was not inertia starter

 

[Wurger]

Was it anything like the Viet starter ?

 

[waroff]

Viet starter had a pump build in starter body to inflate a air cylinder,

On Nid, the mechanic use a bicycle pump type(stowed behind the pilot) to inflate the cylinder which allow 6 starting when the pressure is 10kg.
May be was a first model of Viet starter?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The starter was a air system which injected air in cylinders through a carburetor and distributor.
The pressure push the piston and the engine turn, a specific magneto(starting magneto) allow the run of engine.
now it is possible to start engine by driven the propeller but not by crank(there was not inertia starter

So the air system, did it use a cartridge?

 

[Wurger]

Viet starter had a pump build in starter body to inflate a air cylinder,

On Nid, the mechanic use a bicycle pump type(stowed behind the pilot) to inflate the cylinder which allow 6 starting when the pressure is 10kg.
May be was a first model of Viet starter?

OK. THX.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Viet starter had a pump build in starter body to inflate a air cylinder,

On Nid, the mechanic use a bicycle pump type(stowed behind the pilot) to inflate the cylinder which allow 6 starting when the pressure is 10kg.
May be was a first model of Viet starter?

You answered my question - excellent information!

So it might have been possible to have the air cylinder inflated so a pilot could easily jump into the aircraft should they have to rapidly take off?

 

[Wurger]

Anyway the another guy was needed to start the engine though.