Object identification help

[DanH]

I'm wondering if anyone can help with identifying an object that I have recently received, I have been in contact with the IMP at Duxford who suggested I try forums as well as some other museums, and the national archives but I thought I'd try here, apologies if it not the correct place.
The item is a small wooden box, it has a metal air ministry label on it which reads (I've included a photo)

' Ref No 5c/3076
BOX CAMS
ACCESSORIES FOR FLASHER
Ref No 5c/2205'

There is a further reference number inside the box (photo included) that reads - REF No 5C/3103

As yet I have not been able to match the reference numbers exactly, but I believe they are connected to the electrical systems of an aircraft (not sure on type) there is a website that lists the various Air ministry reference numbers, but I have not found an exact match.

This box has been modified to hold an old micrometer, as you can see in the image, the micrometer I know about as these are easy to look up, it's the box I would like to know more about.

My theory is that the box held cams (not cameras, but cams as in a car cam shaft that kind of thing) I have found one other box like this online, but it's from a selling site and they didn't really provide much more insight.
I think the cams some how fixed into a flasher unit on an aircraft to help with identification in some way, the cams from what I can tell would produce a different sequence of flashes (not sure if it would have been light or radio) depending on what cams were installed. The other box I found online has some of the cams still in it, the numbering on them suggests different ratios or patterns, so as an example using one of the cams that states 6-1 could produce a series of 6 flashes and then a pause (almost like morse) but again I am guessing.
The link to the other one I found online is - AIR MINISTRY FLASHER CAMS - RAF WWII PERIOD | #248774493

I did find a box of flasher cams here - 5C - Electrical - Ground Lighting but these are lettered from A to Z but seem to be similar.

If anyone has any ideas or knows what these might have been I would be grateful.

 

[OldGeezer]

I'm wondering if anyone can help with identifying an object that I have recently received, I have been in contact with the IMP at Duxford who suggested I try forums as well as some other museums, and the national archives but I thought I'd try here, apologies if it not the correct place.
The item is a small wooden box, it has a metal air ministry label on it which reads (I've included a photo)

' Ref No 5c/3076
BOX CAMS
ACCESSORIES FOR FLASHER
Ref No 5c/2205'

There is a further reference number inside the box (photo included) that reads - REF No 5C/3103

As yet I have not been able to match the reference numbers exactly, but I believe they are connected to the electrical systems of an aircraft (not sure on type) there is a website that lists the various Air ministry reference numbers, but I have not found an exact match.

This box has been modified to hold an old micrometer, as you can see in the image, the micrometer I know about as these are easy to look up, it's the box I would like to know more about.

My theory is that the box held cams (not cameras, but cams as in a car cam shaft that kind of thing) I have found one other box like this online, but it's from a selling site and they didn't really provide much more insight.
I think the cams some how fixed into a flasher unit on an aircraft to help with identification in some way, the cams from what I can tell would produce a different sequence of flashes (not sure if it would have been light or radio) depending on what cams were installed. The other box I found online has some of the cams still in it, the numbering on them suggests different ratios or patterns, so as an example using one of the cams that states 6-1 could produce a series of 6 flashes and then a pause (almost like morse) but again I am guessing.
The link to the other one I found online is - AIR MINISTRY FLASHER CAMS - RAF WWII PERIOD | #248774493

I did find a box of flasher cams here - 5C - Electrical - Ground Lighting but these are lettered from A to Z but seem to be similar.

If anyone has any ideas or knows what these might have been I would be grateful.

The "other one" at Worthpoint is actually your item, the wear marks on the outside exactly match those on yours, and in fact the photos are identically cropped. What exactly do you have?

 

[MiTasol]

Here is the Flasher unit itself but I have no material on the cams or on the internals of the unit. I agree the cams most likely provide alternative flash sequences.

The unit is sealed with a crimped lead plug on the lockwire in the top right corner as well as the putty so changing the cams is no two minute operation as one should expect if they are to provide alternative flash sequences.

 

[DanH]

The "other one" at Worthpoint is actually your item, the wear marks on the outside exactly match those on yours, and in fact the photos are identically cropped. What exactly do you have? View attachment 807759

Somehow managed to mix up the images, I've been using that image as it's easier to read than mine, it says exactly the same thing though.
The worth point one is identical to mine apart from the modification to hold the micrometer, the worth point one is how mine should look of that makes sense, I'm still to figure out what they were used for. I've attached an image of the plaque from my one.

 

[DanH]

Here is the Flasher unit itself but I have no material on the cams or on the internals of the unit. I agree the cams most likely provide alternative flash sequences.

The unit is sealed with a crimped lead plug on the lockwire in the top right corner as well as the putty so changing the cams is no two minute operation as one should expect if they are to provide alternative flash sequences.
View attachment 807766

Thanks for finding the flasher unit, it's interesting that it has what appear to be anti-tamper devices on it, such as the crimped lead plug and possibly the putty. Makes me wonder if these were preset and then installed in aircraft? and I guess that if the cam (if that's what they are) needed to be changed a ground-crew operative maybe installed a new flasher cam, it would be more work to take the entire flasher unit out every time a flasher cam needed to be changed as it it seems the flasher unit was wired into the electrical system of the aircraft.
It's pure speculation but I think that these units did flash a sequence of light flashes for the purpose of identification, so as a theory someone on the ground would have a guide of flash sequences that they could then use to determine whether the aircraft they have spotted is a friend or foe (IFF) same goes for any other aircraft nearby, it potentially is a quick visual way of figuring out whether you need to shoot at it or not, like I said just a theory.

 

[MiTasol]

Manual flashing was used on drogue towing aircraft as below. I doubt the 5c/2206 flasher was used on later versions of this system. Tis a mystery to me.

 

[special ed]

Certainly, aircrew were of sufficient intelligence that they did not need such detailed instructions as given, delineating starboard-green and port-red. Perhaps the person writing the instructions should have had an I.Q. test.

 

[DanH]

I have been in contact with the RAF museum to see if they can shed some light onto what these were used for, I have not been able to find anything else out, and of course the other mystery which I doubt I will ever know is who turned the box into a case for their micrometer, so many questions, the micrometer is at least from around the 40's possibly 50's and that particular model has 2 patents on it, one dated 1891 and the other dated 1908.

Did it belong to someone who used the flasher cams, an engineer building planes, aircrew, ground crew? who knows, I've added an image of the inside of the box I have complete with the micrometer, which is in very good condition for it's age, and still quite accurate.

 

[Snautzer01]

I have been in contact with the RAF museum to see if they can shed some light onto what these were used for, I have not been able to find anything else out, and of course the other mystery which I doubt I will ever know is who turned the box into a case for their micrometer, so many questions, the micrometer is at least from around the 40's possibly 50's and that particular model has 2 patents on it, one dated 1891 and the other dated 1908.

Did it belong to someone who used the flasher cams, an engineer building planes, aircrew, ground crew? who knows, I've added an image of the inside of the box I have complete with the micrometer, which is in very good condition for it's age, and still quite accurate.

Vintage Micrometer Friction Thimble Type

 

[DanH]

Just an update on this, below is a quote from another forum, I've asked about the cams on various sites.
This is interesting in that AGLT's weren't widely used, wikipedia stats that it was 4 out of every 1000 sorties (here's the link - AGLT's) but it makes sense that you would need a system that identified friend from foe, otherwise the system would detect a mark and not actually identify it as a valid target or not, although that may have been down to the air crew.
The article also mentions the use of a pulse repetition in the 660 hertz range, perhaps these flasher cams were used to generate a series of pulses that would allow the AGLT and the air crew to identify it as friendly or not?
Again this is just a theory and as yet I can't confirm this either way.

24v puts it late/post war.

Not 100% but I think it's part of Type Z equipment, IR emitters

This was the counterpart friendly signal device for Village Inn AGLTs.