Obscure 109's

Discussion in 'Aircraft Requests' started by Sagittario64, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    i know these requests have probably been asked before, but after reading them i still need help with three variants
    first is the Bf.109H. the information i find is sketchy, scattered, and is lacking some critical data
    if anyone has performance data for the Bf.109H-0/-1, and especially any hint of production/conversion numbers(with sources of the information), i would be grateful
    also if anyone knows anything about a Bf.109W, which i have been lead to believe is a floatplane, id be grateful for information about that too.
    lastly, the Bf.109K-14, of which 2 are purported to show up in II./JG52's registry, has been doubted to have even existed. was the names in the registries just typos, or were they actually K-14s?
     
  2. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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  3. herman1rg

    herman1rg Well-Known Member

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    6 minute response time, that's slow LOL
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #4 Wurger, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
    I found something like that for the Bf109K-14

    K-14 based on: Bf 109 K-4
    alterations:
    - changed armament
    - changed engine
    - 4-blade-propeller
    purpose: fighter
    wing span: 32,5 ft (9,92 m)
    length: 29 ft (8,85 m)
    height: 8 ft (2,59 m)
    aerodynamic area: 16,4 m˛
    weight: 7438 pound (3374 kg)
    speed maximum: 453 mph (730 km/h)
    service ceiling: 41.000 ft (12.500 m)
    engine: Daimler-Benz 605 L (1750 PS) with mechanic 2-stage supercharger
    range: 297 nm (550 km)
    equipment:
    - 4-blade-propeller
    - MW 50 equipment
    - "Erla-Canopy"
    armament: 2 x 13 mm MG 131 (above the engine) 3 x 30 mm MK 108 (one fireing through the spinner, one in each wing)
    radio equipment: FuG 16 ZY
    further comments: - last known Bf 109 construction - no serial production


    A propable appearance....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    The Bf 109W (Wasserflugzeug - Seaplane) was a projekt only and never actually made up during the war.
     
  6. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Wurger, would this be it or not?
     

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  7. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    No Mate, I'm afraid. The picture shows Bf 109E-4 with a ski under-carriage ( schneekufen ) that was tested during a trial in January 1941. The plane was crashed after 80 test-flights. After the accident the project was abandoned and never continued.

    Regarding the Bf 109K-14 in II./JG52..... the info is untrue rather because no one of the K-14 variant of Messerschmitt was built by the war ending. It is more likely that the unit got two Bf 109K-4s with a two-speed mechanical superchager that was foreseen for DB 605L engine
     
  8. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Thanks! I thought it was a modified and not a special Mk 109.
     
  9. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    You'r welcome. It seems that it is more likely the variant was the E-8. It can be indicated by these pylon detents under her fuselage and the lack of bulged hatches for wing cannons.

    bf109e4 na nartach.jpg

    And here the possible view of the Bf 109W

    bf109 na polywakach.jpg
     
  10. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Excellent!
     
  11. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    What was the point of the W model? fighter floatplane in europe? doesnt seem to have much of an advantage to me unless it was intended for operations in norway with its fjords
     
  12. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    and with the well known meticulousness of wwii german records of manufacture and information depositories, how is it that no one knows for certain how many H models were produced? even so, uncertain numbers also often have numbered estimates, but the H model is confusing. i havent seen one number, only "limited production" and "small numbers". a small number could be anything. a small number could be anywhere from 1 to 200. especially considering that 12,000 G-6s alone were produced, compared to that, 200 still seems pretty small. even 500 seems relatively small compared to production numbers above 1,000.
     
  13. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    I'm not sure if there was any particular reason for that. Just they considered a such equipment for Bf109. Also a such idea was tested with Spitfire.
    And why do you think that the Norway with its fjords could be taken into consideration for operations only? You have forgotten that Nazi German took control over The Baltic Sea, The North Sea, the Mediterranean Sea ( to a certain extent of course ) and a part of the Atlantic Ocean . So it would be possible to use the plane in every water reservoir that would be larger than a puddle.
     
  14. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Because even those meticulous records were destroyed during the last months of the war hence sometimes there are no numbers.
     
  15. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    perhaps the Floatplane version was meant to replace the Ar196 for service aboard capitol ships?
     
  16. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    Indeed but norway came to mind first. these fjords sometimes have no level coast and rise straight up into the mountains. if you need fighters on call to protect your moored ships immediately(within 10 or 15 minutes of warning), then i would assume a fighter floatplane could rapidly respond and hold the line until land-based fighters arrive to deal the the situation. just look at the tirpitz. and other german ships. those lancasters could have been disrupted enough to abandon their bomb runs, or held them off long enough for the land based 109s and 110s to arrive
     
  17. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    well factory production numbers could have been destroyed, but what about squadron registers? we know of several units that operated the Bf.109H. did it just occur, that every possible source of production and operational service data for this model was completely lost to the final stages of the war?
     
  18. Sagittario64

    Sagittario64 Member

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    but then again, i suppose the 109W was just nothing more than the result of the overwhelming desire to specialize aircraft that dominated world war ii aircraft development.
     
  19. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Do we? Please share. It is possible that the version based on a Bf109F did actually see service,probably with 3.(F)/121. Less than a handful were produced,they very probably flew one of the prototypes in service.
    The version based on the Bf109G was never produced as a service aircraft. Two prototypes were built. V-54.W.Nr.15708 (PV+JB) was flown between 5/11/43 and 22/1/44. The second,improved prototype,V-55,was destroyed in a bombing raid on 25/2/44. Efforts to bring V-54 up to the specifications of V-55 were not successful. Despite this it was planned to produce production versions at Wiener Neustadt and jigs produced in Italy were in place by July 1944. The project was cancelled on 18/7/44,before production started,in favour of the Me262A-1a/U3 reconnaissance version.
    As with many things Luftwaffe there is a huge disparity between the aircraft planned and specified and what actually got produced.

    The Bf109K-14 never existed.

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  20. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Ditto....

    A good work Steve.
     
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