Okay... I'm all f*cked up with USAAF squadrons again...

[Maestro]

Greetings ladies and gentlemen.

Like it's too "general" to post in the model section, I thought it belonged here.

I always thought that the "Yellow Jackets" were the nickname of the 361st Fighter Group, right ? And their emblema was a red stallion on a yellow rudder, right ?

I just finished building a 1/48 P-51D (that I thought was from the Yellow Jackets) and discovered that it was from an other FG. If I'm right, P-51D "Miss Marilyn II" CY-M was from 343rd FS, 55th FG and had the exact same emblema.

So where is my mistake ?

 

[drgondog]

Greetings ladies and gentlemen.

Like it's too "general" to post in the model section, I thought it belonged here.

I always thought that the "Yellow Jackets" were the nickname of the 361st Fighter Group, right ? And their emblema was a red stallion on a yellow rudder, right ?

I just finished building a 1/48 P-51D (that I thought was from the Yellow Jackets) and discovered that it was from an other FG. If I'm right, P-51D "Miss Marilyn II" CY-M was from 343rd FS, 55th FG and had the exact same emblema.

So where is my mistake ?

The Mustang you have done is indeed 343rd FS/55th FG stationed at Wormingford - this scheme with Red, blue and Yellow rudders was enacted perhaps in late October early November 1944. The red mustang was UNIQUE to the 343FS - this one Mustang on Yellow rudder, some on rudder before color code, some not at all. This particular a/c went down with its pilot Ken Mix in a mid air collision with a P-51 of 357FG on December 24, 1944 near Daun.


The 361st had all Yellow spinner and cowl with no rudder colors until the above-mentioned timeframe and of course had 374th (B7), 375th (E2) and 376 (E9) squadron codes.. The cowl decorations ranged from a simple vertical panel ahead of exhaust stacks to the 352nd FG 'sweep' only in yellow instead of blue.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Erich]

to add to Bills excellent post, the Olive drab and very unique sweep paint job was short lived and according to pilot of the 55th fg F. Birticiel and photo evidence the Red Mustang was removed and the Olive drab sweep dispensed with and return to Aluminum silver overall

 

[Maestro]

The Mustang you have done is indeed 343rd FS/55th FG stationed at Wormingford - this scheme with Red, blue and Yellow rudders was enacted perhaps in late October early November 1944. The red mustang was UNIQUE to the 343FS - this one Mustang on Yellow rudder, some on rudder before color code, some not at all. This particular a/c went down with its pilot Ken Mix in a mid air collision with a P-51 of 357FG on December 24, 1944 near Daun.


The 361st had all Yellow spinner and cowl with no rudder colors until the above-mentioned timeframe and of course had 374th (B7), 375th (E2) and 376 (E9) squadron codes.. The cowl decorations ranged from a simple vertical panel ahead of exhaust stacks to the 352nd FG 'sweep' only in yellow instead of blue.

Hope this helps

Bill

Thanks for the information. It helped a lot.

However, I think you are mistaking on the aircraft. That aircraft was flown by Robert E. Welch (6 victories), according to my sources.

 

[drgondog]

Thanks for the information. It helped a lot.

However, I think you are mistaking on the aircraft. That aircraft was flown by Robert E. Welch (6 victories), according to my sources.

Welsh was assigned 'primary' for CY-O "Wings of the Morning" 44-14140 for most of his scores - then flew 44-72138 CY-Z at end of war. See page 53 Aces and Wingmen II (Hess)

Good pic in Aces and Wingmen II (Morris) for Lt Ozinga in front of CYM Miss Marilyn II in November 1944 timeframe - pg 47

Don't know for sure whether Ozinga or Mix was 'primary' when Mix went down in CY-M but it was never R E Welch's assigned ship.

Regards, Bill

 

[drgondog]

Thanks for the information. It helped a lot.

However, I think you are mistaking on the aircraft. That aircraft was flown by Robert E. Welch (6 victories), according to my sources.

Welsh was assigned 'primary' for CY-O "Wings of the Morning" 44-14140 - then flew 44-72138 CY-Z at end of war. See page 53 Aces and Wingmen II (Hess)..

Good pic in Aces and Wingmen II (Morris) for Lt Ozinga in front of CYM Miss Marilyn II in November 1944 timeframe - pg 47

Don't know for sure whether Ozinga or Mix was 'primary' when Mix went down in CY-M but if it was R E Welch's assigned ship for his first tour it was re-assigned to Ozinga - perhaps if Welsh CTD first tour in early December - the re-assigned CY-O when he returned?

Regards, Bill

 

[lesofprimus]

Did CY-M go down on 12/24/44 in the color scheme depicted above, or was it polished alum by then???

I think u may be right about it being Welshs' crate on his first tour Bill...

 

[drgondog]

Did CY-M go down on 12/24/44 in the color scheme depicted above, or was it polished alum by then???

I think u may be right about it being Welshs' crate on his first tour Bill...

I haven't researched the 55th like the 355Fg but nearly certain he had the bird not too long after he joined the 55th in Sept 1944.

As to the color scheme - it changed in the December to Feb 1945 timeframe and I just don't know whether CY-M had that distinctive OD scheme when it went down in December.

Every pic I have seen of Welsh's CY-O 44-14140 Wings of the Morning is a standard looking color scheme - but they all have 18 of his scores on the nose which puts the pic at April 17, 1945 - earliest. He got 11 ground and one air between April 9 and April 17, 1945

 

[Jill]

Welsh was assigned 'primary' for CY-O "Wings of the Morning" 44-14140 - then flew 44-72138 CY-Z at end of war. See page 53 Aces and Wingmen II (Hess)..

Good pic in Aces and Wingmen II (Morris) for Lt Ozinga in front of CYM Miss Marilyn II in November 1944 timeframe - pg 47

Don't know for sure whether Ozinga or Mix was 'primary' when Mix went down in CY-M but if it was R E Welch's assigned ship for his first tour it was re-assigned to Ozinga - perhaps if Welsh CTD first tour in early December - the re-assigned CY-O when he returned?

Regards, Bill

Hello — I'm new here. Robert E. Welch was my father, but he died in a training accident shortly after I was born. I am interested in learning anything I can about him. I'm wondering if it would be of interest to the members if I uploaded the documents and photos I have from his service. I also have a film that apparently was recorded from his aircraft, I'm not sure how to go about that, but I would be happy to do it.

 

[pbehn]

Hello — I'm new here. Robert E. Welch was my father, but he died in a training accident shortly after I was born. I am interested in learning anything I can about him. I'm wondering if it would be of interest to the members if I uploaded the documents and photos I have from his service. I also have a film that apparently was recorded from his aircraft, I'm not sure how to go about that, but I would be happy to do it.

Welcome to the forum, go for it, its basically what the forum is for, in part at least.

 

[mjfur]

http://www.station131.co.uk/55th/images/Plane%20Photos/343rd%20FS/CY-M%20Miss%20Marilyn%20II%20P-51D%2044-13837.jpg

http://www.station131.co.uk/55th/images/Plane%20Photos/343rd%20FS/CY-Z%20P-51D%2044-72138.jpg

Welch Robert E Capt

343rd FS Planes

 

[fubar57]

Welcome

 

[Snautzer01]

Welcome.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Welcome aboard and please feel free to post those items, we'd love to see them.