On This Day In 1812 ....

Discussion in '1800-1914' started by michaelmaltby, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    #1 michaelmaltby, Jun 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
    ... US President, James Madison - with provocation from the Royal Navy and His Majesty's Government - but against the wishes of most of New England and the eastern seaboard states - declared war on Great Britain and Her loyal colonies.

    Thus began a most ironic war. Generally speaking, Britain did poorly on water, and the US army did poorly on land. In many instances Americans were fighting - or resisting - other Americans - the former having recently come to Upper Canada for good free land ... the later an invading, looting, army.

    On Christmas Eve, 1814, it ended at Ghent. Leaving New Orleans as an outstanding example of "The Fog of War".

    When the dust had settled .... the border didn't change an iota.

    Canada won because we got to stay Canadians. And the Indian Nations lost ... heroically ... abandoned by Britain to US Manifest Destiny.

    No two nations on earth are better neighbors than Canada and the U.S.A.

    War of 1812
     
  2. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Deals off unless you take back Celine Dion! :evil4:
     
  3. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    ummmm.....Britain did poorly on water? Wasn't this one of the precise reasons why we went to war - the 'piracy' of the Royal Navy against our merchant ships? :)

    I'll trade you scrapple for some Canadian bacon!
     
  4. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    "... I'll trade you scrapple for some Canadian bacon!"

    Is that a bet or a business proposition, Njaco .. :) .?

    The US had vessels such as the Constitution that were better built (better material), bigger and better armed than frigates in the RN. The RN had a shattering defeat when they lost HMS Guerriere at the outset. And on both the Great Lakes and Lake Champlain the Americans defeated British arms on water.

    American sailors were better paid, better fed and better treated than their counterparts in the RN.

    Britain had/has a fine navy but the War of 1812 was over control of the seas (by Britain) not about seamanship - per se.

    Out of curiosity - what is Canadian bacon - is it what we call back bacon or pea meal bacon which is brined and rolled in corn meal or yellow pea meal and is more like ham ...? OR - is it pork belly bacon cured in maple syrup and thinly sliced (as in BLT sandwich) ..?

    Hungry ....

    MM
     
  5. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Point taken and accepted. I just remember this time being the high-tide for Nelson, so the comment threw me off.


    And I now appologize for going off-topic but I couldn't let this pass.

    Man-Cave Test:

    Name these 3 meaty breakfast items? guess you could say I'm 'spamming'. :)
     

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  6. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    #6 michaelmaltby, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
    "... guess you could say I'm 'spamming'.

    Speaking of which ...... my wife Tiina and I got married at the Fairgrounds in Kinmount (June 26, 1982). We had just built the cabin the previous fall but the morning after the wedding we had the guests out to the cabin and I served bacon and eggs. I ran out of bacon so switched to the cans of Spam that I held in 'reserve' ... :). As I started to fry it up the old Estonian men - who had already eaten - gathered around the frying Spam - wanting some. It turns out they were envious of the Russians who received Spam-aid - whenever they captured Russian positions there were these empty Spam cans with 'Made in USA' on them .... :). They felt USA was on the wrong side - but then - they had been over-run by The Soviets after Molotov Ribbentrop in 1940.

    Loved hearing their stories .... most now dead.
     
  7. renrich

    renrich Active Member

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    Michael, good job but you left out the Battle of New Orleans which was tragic but a resounding victory for the US after the Treaty of Ghent. That battle helped propel Andrew Jackson into the White House after it was rebuilt since the British burned it. One interesting point is that the US-Canada border was the scene of almost constant raids back and forth for 200 years. Read a book about that recently. Seems to be pretty peaceful though now. The few times I have visited up North I thoroughly enjoyed it.
     
  8. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    ".... On Christmas Eve, 1814, it ended at Ghent. Leaving New Orleans as an outstanding example of "The Fog of War".
     
  9. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    That includes the times my mates and I used to cross over to the Anchor Bar in Buffalo to drink beer and have their excellent chicken wings.
     
  10. buffnut453

    buffnut453 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW New Orleans wasn't the final battle during the war of 1812...it's just the one that's remembered!
     
  11. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    "I'll have Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam, without the spam..."

    "You mean to say, you want Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam, without the spam?"

    "That's right... I want Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam, without the spam!"

    Que group of Vikings sitting at another table "Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...!"
     
  12. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    #12 michaelmaltby, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
    @Viking:

    "... Deals off unless you take back Celine Dion!"

    OK - but - you have to take back William Shatner .... a Canadian of small talent, huge ego and massive posse of trek-borgies ... who went to Hollywood in your country and got all WEIRD ... OR WHAT.

    But - like New Orleans ... these things happen. It's the fog of war.

    On a more serious note:

    "... No two nations on earth are better neighbors than Canada and the U.S.A."

    New Detroit-Windsor bridge to be built. The existing bridge is "private" - old - and a bottleneck to the $1B+ a day in trade that moves over it.

    Canada believes in this relationship so much that we are financing Michigan's portion of the tab - to be recovered via toll fees. And the Euros in Brussels, wonder why we don't want to throw good $$$$ in their bailout-bailout. A new Canada-USA bridge on the 200th anniversary of 1812 - that is constructive.


    New Windsor bridge a vital link in Canada, U.S. trade | News | Financial Post
     
  13. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  14. yulzari

    yulzari Active Member

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    It is now 80 years since the American's plan for invading and seizing Canada and even built advanced airfields for the task.
     
  15. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    It is ......?

    What's the Anniversary, yulzari?

    MM
     
  16. yulzari

    yulzari Active Member

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    Happy Birthday Plan Red (I could have the date a bit wrong but there or thereabouts).
     
  17. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  18. yulzari

    yulzari Active Member

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    It is the 82nd anniversary of the US Secretary of War's approval of Plan Red. My apologies, the actual 82nd anniversary was in May. All countries make plans to deal with threats. Canada had (has?) it's own to respond to a US invasion but the disturbing thing about Plan Red was that it was not a threat response but a plan to initiate conflict and it was not only kept updated but money was spent on construction of potential forward bases. To be fair the forward bases were a conscious choice of location of airfields that would probably have been built somewhere anyway.

    It presumed Britain would not have the will to devote all it's resources to defend more than the Atlantic coast of Canada but I have no doubt that Britain ( in the then wider sense) would have responded fully knowing that so many Canadians had given their all to help Britain in the past, and so recently in particular.

    Blessedly the world has moved on and a US invasion of Canada is about as likely as a French invasion of Spain which is as it should be. I just mentioned it as a small window on the past and I hope no one will pursue it further than acknowledging that yesterday was not like today and today Canada and the USA are secure and happy neighbours.
     
  19. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  20. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    #20 michaelmaltby, Aug 12, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012

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