Online manual copy rights

Discussion in 'Technical Requests' started by Micdrow, Jun 23, 2007.

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  1. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Ive had a few requests asking if I new how to remove digital copy write's from some of the online downloadable web sites around the net. Personally I will not remove these copy rights to upload. If you do you do it at your own risk. Most if not all the manuals Ive uploaded Ive found out on the net or I own. The laws very where you live on this subject but me for one am going to cover my butt on this subject.

    So please do not ask me to do it for you.

    Micdrow
     
  2. 10tweaker

    10tweaker Member

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    I may be stirring the pot here (although it is NOT my intention), but I am a bit confused regarding copyright. I was reading another post (can't remember now the exact post or names) where one of the moderators pretty much handed the guy his a$$ and banned him for mentioning copyright stuff. Maybe I took it out of context--these guys might have had a previous tift that I know nothing about, but the language was surprising for a moderator. Being a moderator myself on a different site, I try to "set the tone" of the conversation--respectfully setting things straight. (Both the administrator and I want people to have input and enjoy the discussions, but without unnecessary turmoil.) Is copyright THAT hot of a topic? I think the manuals and drawings are considered public domain right?, but am not sure about the medium in which they are presented, I.E., scanned manuals and digitised blueprints. (I imagine some serious time and money could be involved in scanning or redrawing, etc.) Do copyright laws generally cover that as well? I was reading some similar discord on a couple of other sites related to (apparently) some of the same items--blueprints and "pirating" and so forth. Can you offer some guidance on this? I love the old planes and want to enjoy the tech manuals but don't want to cause myself trouble with copyright infringement either. So, what's the real deal, so to speak?

    Thanks in advance.

    Jim
     
  3. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Hi Jim,

    I guess the big reason why I posted this is because in the past Ive received lots of emails from people wanting me to remove password locks and such on manuals that where posted here that they wanted to print or copy pictures from.

    Also there are documents people wanted to post here but had bought them from online manual stores that have passwords to prevent this very thing. For me personally I did not want to get caught in the middle. The other big thing is proof. How do you prove something is yours on a message board? All this causes are big arguements that go no where.

    The big thing with copy right seems to be more with pictures. You can find a picture all over the web and then post it on a message board and then some calls copy right on something when more then likely it doesnt belong to them in the first place.

    If you have aircraft manuals and are willing to share then. Feel more then welcome to post them. This post was more to stop people from asking me to remove the passwords for them from private and public retailers of manuals.
     
  4. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Being an owner of several thousand copyrighted images, I find it laughable that someone buys a print of a photo that is from the archives of a government, then put their name and copyright on it. If you own a copy of the image, you do NOT own the copyright.

    When a manual or set of blueprints are digitized, obviously, the person that has done it would like to be compensated for their work. That being said, it's like a print of a photo. They do not own the copyrights or trademarks to the manuals and blueprints that they have digitized.

    We have had a few folks that think that because they were involved in digitizing a manual that shows up here, they are being wronged. Some have been quite nasty about it to the admins and mods here. So yes, it is a bit of a hot button. We have ad similar instances with images. If you actually own the copyright to the image, then you have a beef. If you happen to have purchased someone's old war album at a yard sale, or on e-bay and you digitize them, you still do not own the copyright, period. The copyright holds until 60 years after the death of the copyright holder.

    Additionally, military and archive photos are public domain. I have seen more than one US National Archive image posted here with someone else's "copyright".
     
  5. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Very Very True Eric and well said.
     
  6. 10tweaker

    10tweaker Member

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    Thanks Gentlemen--much appreciated.

    Jim
     
  7. Luckyone

    Luckyone Member

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    Hi everyone
    I see your point . and every and each of you is right..
    BUT
    International Copyright Law is clear..

    If you do some work on old document and you put together a new product ... books .. Photo album,, blueprints .. drawings collection .. that include customer interface with personal and new features from the ORIGINAL work .. You have create something new ...
    Bottom line . Manuals Documents that have been processed and introduce in to the marketplace in a new form ( REPRINTS, or Electronic format ) are new products. ...furthermore.. if some company ( publisher ) and want to sell this product has to register and obtain Copyright
    Publisher obtain copyright from authors in lieu of Right royalty in this case that has to do copyright search and assignment from public domain collective works .. Hard to explain in few words

    TWO lately example

    U.S. Navy Training WWI WWII and Nuclear Missile Submarine Warship DVD and books

    and

    Aircraft Blueprints Manuals Video Publication Home Page

    Both Publisher product can be found in pilot' shops or on the web Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs more

    etc etc..

    The second publisher has official link with copyright registration archives

    CIPO - Canadian Copyrights Database - Results

    ISBN Number etc etc

    Copyright protection it is hard to be defend in court

    People that break copyright laws are ambiguous... anonymous the most of time
    For a publisher go after some one that has infringe his /her copyright ... is a lost of money ..
    Legal fee are outrageous.. $ 500.00 USD to $ 1,000.00 USD x hr ..

    money that never will be recuperate ... so .. you can understand and it is better forget about it ..
    Live and let them live on it ..

    you can be flatter if some one has stolen your work ... at the end of day .. you want this ... nothing is for ever .. and if some one use your ideas or product and get benefit from .. Alleluia You have done right that was your purpose .. if some one buy and resell ... you can be upset ..but there is nothing.. you can do it

    I am sorry I wrote to much .. your input is welcome :oops:
    I love this forum .. here there are great fellows ( the most at list ) :rolleyes:
     
  8. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Very true Luckyone and as you said you can not please every one.
     
  9. Luckyone

    Luckyone Member

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    Yes you right .. Life is too short .. and you have to focus or what you want and What you want to give to get it " Do ut Des " Latin wise quote for
    " what you give is what you get " :lol:
    Anyway the Freedom to search and gather information and data for our project and knowledge has to be defend .. freedom for everyone to share ideas opinion and confront himself ( herself ) with everyone

    Copyright Law is acknowledge of Title of Ideas or Product
    Ideas are FREE and has to be spread out .. Data and information has to be shared

    I suppose everyone agree with this 8)
     
  10. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    I disagree about suing over copyright infringement. I know several folks that have won and collected on that. BUT this was only when someone used the image to sell a product or otherwise turn a profit while using the image. Taking a copyrighted image and posting it to a site that is talking about historical events or is only a site for information and education is a completely different issue.

    I have had a few sites use my images after editing the image and removing my copyright notice. In all cases, I tell them it is okay to use the image in it's unaltered form, but not the way it is presented on their website. They have all agreed to an original format image, or one that I have resized for them with the copyright notice back in place.

    All of the images on my site are at 72 dpi, which looks great on screen, but don't print too clearly. They know where to come to get the high-res versions or prints. I am okay with personal websites, historical and discussion websites using my images if they maintain the copyright notice and if they are not using the image to sell something. There has to be some "give-back" with creative works.

    I provide images to the CAF SoCal Wing for their website and newsletter for free. I have a bunch of historical, modeling and blog sites that have my photos on them. As a photographer, more exposure is good.
     
  11. Luckyone

    Luckyone Member

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    I understand evangilder But about legal matter do you agree that it is a lot of money involve and the winner are not the copyright owners
    Legal fee are very high and IF you win your Battle in court hardly you will be able to collect something

    Did you ever try it ????
     
  12. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    As I said before, I know people that have taken things to court and have been awarded and paid settlements.

    The winners are not the copyright owners?? Are you freakin kidding me??? In these cases, YES they were.

    I am a pro photographer, I have many friends that are. Saying that copyright owners don't win cases is not true, period. Legal fees only add up if you hire some high priced attorney. Spend a little time with the copyright law, have your proof of copyright in hand and you don't need an attorney. You have very good legal legs to stand on.
     
  13. Luckyone

    Luckyone Member

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    Hi evangilder you might be right

    My experience is that I lost above and beyond 100 Giga $ and I was not able to collect anything

    Because the person that have infringe copyright have no money ..

    So Court give me the right

    Attorney get the fee from me $ 500.00 USD x hr Year 2001

    and

    I get Nothing

    You were able and lucky enough... to collect :D Good for you

    Statistic prof that

    79 % Win copyright Case and are not able to collect anything
    11 % Settle case with compensation
    10 % Loose ..

    You were the lucky one :confused:
     
  14. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Again, it depends on what or how the image was used. If you sue every person that uses you image without your permission, you will be a pauper. If you sue someone who has used your image to sell a product or make money, then you have every right to recover proper compensation for the use of the image. There is a line that you have to be able to draw and use it. If you have to spend $500/hr on someone to collect $1,200, it's a no-brainer that you aren't going to get squat.

    If you have your copyright paperwork and all evidence that the image is yours, there is no reason to spend $500 on an attorney.

    And please, don't tell me that you lost 100 giga dollars...:rolleyes: It's either a gross exaggeration, or a testament to someone who has more money than brains. There isn't an image in the world worth that much money.
     
  15. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    With that being said and you both disagree on the subject, I would strongly leave it at that. Nothing is going to be gained here except more frustration and more bad blood. Worst case banishment over an option.

    Lets stick to what this web page is mainly about. The history of aircraft. Good or bad I wont see business names being fought over there reputations here.
     
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