Orient's best: Ki-100 vs Ki-84

[Tommy Enfield]

Hi,


I've always been impressed by the achievements of the JAAF Type 4 Ki-84 but I've been reading some interesting information regarding the very Last Samurai, the Kawasaki Ki-100, it was received as a blessing by both ground crews and pilots alike.

So it seems that the Ki-100 was most favored by the JAAF so, in your opinion, what would be the best warrior?

 

[V-1710]

The Ki-100 was the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien with a big radial engine, right?

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Yes it was. It was only about three miles per hour slower than the Ki-61, even though it had a large radial. The designers looked at the Fw-190, and how a large radial was moleded to a small airframe so smoothly, and made the transition rather quickly. I believe they used the Ha-104 engine, but thats just an off the top of my head guess, or the Ha-114. Either way they were high powered, in supply and easy to maintain. The previous model, the Ki-61, was built with the Ha-40, liscence copy of the Db-601. The japanese lightened the engine and increased the horsepower somewhat, but always had maintenance troubles. Both fighters, the -61 and the -100 were respectale, but the -100 was overall better even with the incremental lack of speed because it offered better reliability and maintainability. Some -61 airframes were used, and then new ones were built to make the new -100's. The aircraft was a serious threat to P-51'a, and from reports from pilots ive read, it made the Hellcat less of a fearsome opponent.

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Both aircraft mentioned in the initial question were capable in there own respects. The -84 was overall and excellent aircraft, some specialized with two 20mm and two 30mm cannon for interception of bombers, some with two machine guns and two 20mm cannons. Ine the more lightly armed form, the -84 could hold its own against most allied fighters, including the P-51 mustang. It had good vision from the cockpit, good range, manouverable enough, fast enough for sure, good cieling, it was all around good. But then again so was the -100/-61. It depends on more of what you like. If i could fly any of those two, it would be the Ki-100II.

 

[book1182]

In the bomber interception role I would go with the Ki-100. The Ki-84 engine limited its high altitude performance. I like the Ki-84 down low though where I think it was a better performer. The Ki-100 was probably a plane that was to little to late.

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Probably? haha it was, they werent in production until after the B-29 raids destroyed the Ha-40 engine stocks and plants. When the B-29's started bombing the pacific it was too little too late. When the battle of midway was over, any victory for the japanese simply prolonged the war and the suffering of the japanese people.

The Ki-84, with the big cannon, two 20mm and two 30mm would be a formidable interceptor, if not against high alitude B-29's, then against Avengers which flew conventional bombing missions at lower altitudes, and against B-25s and other medium bombers. The japenese interceptors usually, if not always lacked the altitude performance if not armor and armament of there european counterparts.

 

[blue swede]

I'm voting for the Hein Tony. Was that a development form German technology? 8)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

From my understanding the Ki-61 "Tony" was influenced off the design of the Bf-109 and the He-100. The Ha-40 engine (later designated to Ha-60) was based off the German DB-601 engine which had been liscenced built in Japan since 1938 by Kawasaki. Early versions of the aircraft were also armed with Germany MG151's.

However the aircraft is not of German technology in reality.

 

[carpenoctem1689]

Not possible without german technology, but it wasnt based on it. It looks more like an Mc.202 more than anything, but the italians had nothing to do with the collaboration between the german air ministry and japaneese air force production. The japanese saw german technology, and usually adapted it using german technology, or ideas, and fitting them to there own needs. The shushi and the kikka are examples of thise, near copies, though different from the Me-163 rocket interceptor, and the Me-262 jet, though the kikka was a bomber, smaller and had a different fuesalague.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Exactly.

 

[Tommy Enfield]

So the Ki-100 had the better performance aginst high flying B-29s in comparison with the Ki-84?

I've read that the Hayate was one of the best climbers of the Pacific War, and could reach the normal cruising altitude of the Boeing big bomber in a, relatively, short period of time.

 

[Tommy Enfield]

Ground crew really disliked the Ha-40 (Jpanese modified version Daimler Benz 601) for all the plumbing related with the coolant system. The Ha-112 of the Ki-100 was received as a blessing, because it was far more reliable, and was more alike the Japanese combat thinking. The Ha-140 planned for the ill-fated Ki-61 II was plaged with even more problems. The Japanese were always very keen on radials, and the Hien was rather an odd plane.

 

[Jank]

"I've read that the Hayate was one of the best climbers of the Pacific War, and could reach the normal cruising altitude of the Boeing big bomber in a, relatively, short period of time."

And then get shot to pieces by sevral escorting American fighters each with 8 .50 bmg machne guns.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

"I've read that the Hayate was one of the best climbers of the Pacific War, and could reach the normal cruising altitude of the Boeing big bomber in a, relatively, short period of time."

And then get shot to pieces by sevral escorting American fighters each with 8 .50 bmg machne guns.

Or by a formation of -29s (Eight .50-cal. machine guns in remote controlled turrets plus two .50-cal. machine guns and one 20mm cannon)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Or just not have eneogh fuel to do anything after it got up there to the B-29's.

 

[Jank]

They stil had enough fuel to blow up and fall to erth in a pretty fireball reminiscent of the risng sun, only more like the setting sun.

 

[Chocks away!]

Ok take it easy there. The Hayate cannot in any way be concidered cannon fodder.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not saying that either

 

[V-1710]

Wasn't the Ha. 60 also used in early versons of the Yokosuka D4Y 'Judy'?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not sure on that but I do not that the Judy was based off the design of the Heinkel He-118 that had been suplied by Germany.