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Thanks again. Do you know something about historic bomb-runs made by B-25/26, that involved greater range, against, say, a 500-miles distant target and return to same base? Was the 2000 LB bomb ever used on the P-38s, the racks being allowed to carry those?
The P-38L with 300 gal drop tank offers some interesting numbers. After allowance (60 gals for warm-up, taxi, take off to 5000 ft) was accounted for, and with one drop tank (another is replaced with a bomb), it was capable for 1510 miles of range with 650 gals (ie. 300 gals in a DT and 350 gals internal; balance of 60 gals used as allowance). That's how they reached Ploesti (1000 lb bomb on another rack). The 300 gal drop tank (full) weighted 1887 lbs.
Seems like this one has both flexibility and range?
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If the Mosquito is used in the same medium/ high altitude capacity as a P-38 "Droop Snoot," this is a mute point as during the bomb run the entire formation would have to slow down so the bomb load could be directed and dropped by the lead plane (I think a maximum bomb run speed for the Norton Bomb sight was 180 mph). This is what was done during the P-38 raids on Ploesti. Once bombs were released the lead aircraft with the bombardier left the area while the rest of the flight was free to engage fighters.
Thanks for the numbers. The 'return range' of 500-700 miles + reserve would've been great for a heavy fighter pressed into bombers role. The later planes are always better than earlier, the earlier planes have better timing, however.
Well, B-25s hit shipping targets in the Greek Islands from North Africa. They hit Naples Italy from North Africa before Tunis was surrendered. I don't know what distances they were flying in the Pacific.
Not really better timing. When the "G"s were getting into combat The P-47s and P-51s were months away. In fact the "H" started to be produced in April of 1943 and the P-47 had yet to make it's first operational sortie over enemy territory. First P-51B is rolled out an flown in May of 1943. Until the late summer/fall of 1943 ever single P-38 in a combat zone was needed as a fighter.
"The Droop Snoot entered active service on 10 April 1944"
The P-51D was introduced into service with the 8th AIr Force in March of 1944.
The large scale use of P-38s as bombers comes after it is displaced as the top US fighter.
Well, B-25s hit shipping targets in the Greek Islands from North Africa. They hit Naples Italy from North Africa before Tunis was surrendered. I don't know what distances they were flying in the Pacific.
It doesn't mean bombs were accurately dropped at those speeds. At what altitudes and wind drift corrections? Were they operating Norden bombsights? What aircraft type? I believe the you'll find that some RAF bombers were limited on speeds they could even open their bomb bays and most were under 300 mph - the Mosquito if I remember correctly was limited to 320 mph indicated.180 mph seems very low compared to all of the other sight information I have. All wartime British sights can go to about 300 mph TAS (240 for the pre-war CSBS).
Again the 1600lb bomb sounds impressive But I believe under 300 were dropped in Europe during the war. Unless you need to penetrate 5-6 in (12-15cm) of grade "B" armor steel it is pretty useless.
Try comparing the P-61 to the A-26 as they both used the same engines.
The A-26 held 800 US gallons in the wing tanks and could hold another 125 gal in a protected tank in the forward bomb bay. A 625 gal unprotected ferry tank would fit in the rear bomb bay. There may have been drop tanks as well. Sources don't seem to agree.
The P-61 Held 646 US gallons in the wing tanks.
The B-26 had 26 bomb stations in the bomb bay although only 16 can be used at the same time. They do allow for a variety of ordnance. Normal load was 4000lbs of bombs inside. How much the 125 gallon tank blocked things I don't know. WW II versions could also carry four 500lb bombs under the wings.
Not sure of the premise of this thread. the P-38 made an excellent (albeit expensive) fighter-bomber and had a very good record doing that. Good firepower, good range, able to carry a fair range of ordinance. Pretty fast and agile at low altitudes, could hold its own as a fighter if caught that way.
But as a pure bomber? Makes no sense. Hang too much outside and the performance and range drops (as per all fighter-bombers). So I'm not sure what the argument is about.
Plus what bomber do you compare it to, the US mediums (B-25s and so on), the Lanc, or the B-17 or the bomber version Mossies?
You really have to compare it as a fighter-bomber vs Typhoons, P-47s, Spits, Mustangs, FB Mossies, etc. As such it (AFAIK) it held up well. It's biggest weaknesses in this role were probably its size (a similar weakness to the Mossie as a FB) and cost (both in building and running).
Down on the deck, the fundamental flaw of the design, its miserable mach limit, was not an issue. It was pretty quick and probably (not sure of this though so I stand to be corrected) more manoeuvrable, especially in the vertical plane, than a P-47 (which was nearly as expensive to build). It probably (again I stand to be corrected) could carry a heavier load than a comparable P-47 of the time, quite possibly for further (in a permissible environment of course).
Could it maybe carry as much as the US medium bombers. Maybe close in weight, but not of course in numbers, but that is more a reflection of the poor performance of those 'bombers' than saying something great about the P-38, plus the performance hots would have been huge.. Heck, FW-190s were carrying 2,000lb+ bombs in 1943..... P-47s were carrying comparable bombs later (though they took half the length of the World to take off ...).
So good as a FB, albeit expensive. Able to 'hold its own' as they say.
Not sure whether the 1600 lb bomb would've been useful against fortifications, like the ones at Atlantic wall?
added: seem like the 125 gallon tank for the A-26, located above the bombs, would not interfere with a bomb load? Again, the pic is for the A-26C, dated in 1952.
For load the P-38 wins hands down and not until the P-47N does the P-47 show up well in range carrying bombs. But neither one can carry a pair of 1000lb bombs as far as a Mustang can with a rear tank.