P-61 Black Widow
- Thread starter Wildr1
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #3
- Thread starter
- #5
Would like to know the story behind that last picture. That's one messed up 61.
fubar57
General
You'll have to buy the book to find out Jim...Fallen Stars 1 | Canfora Publishing
The photo is also for sale on eBay...USAAF Northrop P-61 Black Widow Iwo Jima 1945 8x12 Aircraft Photos | eBay
The captions says, "A left side view 8x12 photo of a United States Army Air Force Northrop P-61 Black Widow (Serial Number 42-5610) "Midnite Madness" of the 548th NFS was on the receiving end of another Black Widow landing behind it in the fog-shrouded early morning hours on Iwo Jima. This ship, along with P-61B 42-39403 "The Spook,"were subsequently scrapped. Fortunately, there were no serious injuries"
Saved you a bunch of simoleons.
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Niceoldguy58
Airman
- 94
- Mar 2, 2010
Once again I notice a complete and utter lack of attribution of photographs (naming the source of the photos) on this site and posting. I've also seen postings in other postings on this site of copyrighted materials with no attribution of source. These practices have the potential to put both the poster and the site in legal jeopardy for copyright violations or, at the least, violations of terms from the websites and/or original sites or locations from which they are taken. I recognize the above photos as being almost entirely US Army Air Corps/USAF photos which absolutely should be labeled as such. Also, as Official USAAC photos they are all available to copy FOR FREE at the National Archives II, the location of the AAS/AAF/USAF historical photo collections under RG342. While I'm not necessarily expecting top quality researchers following the rules here, I do hope some common sense and recognition of sources to occasionally prevail.
AlanG
AlanG
- Thread starter
- #10
These photos were from the information office and photo lab in the U.S. Air Force, I was given permission in the early 70's to make prints from the public relations files. I have posted many from my collection on this site and do not believe any have specific copyrights attached, most are public property from government files. You can buy prints of many from the archives, I was printing from negatives from public relations files in the Air Force. I have many full size negatives that were going to be destroyed in the Air Force when I rescued them. At the time I was going to paint profiles of these aircraft so I collected as many as I could. I am also an artist/illustrator with a love of history.
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Good shots!
FalkeEins
Senior Airman
that can't be correct. Surely the copyright infringement occurs when people attempt to sell the images....
Niceoldguy58
Airman
- 94
- Mar 2, 2010
Wildr, I began my "mining" of the collection at the Air Force Museum back in 70's, and have continued to do so periodically up to and including this year. When you were there did you happen to work with Dave Menard? Tough on the outside but a peach to work with when he decided you were a serious "airplane person". If you indeed saved a lot of photos from the trash heap then may the Great Spirit be with you! It almost brings me to tears when contacting companies about their archives and find they put them in trash decades ago.
Falke, a copyright infringement can occur by posting copyrighted materials without the author/publisher's permission or the appropriate disclaimer that you are posting if for informational purposes and (hopefully) the legal code reference that permits that. The RAF, for instance, has copyrighted all their photos and can apparently be quite unpleasant to deal with if you violate that. As for Boeing for example, they have decided to make their legal department a profit center and try to squeeze blood out of anyone wanting use anything in their collection - despite that fact that many of the photos are from companies they have purchased over the years and that a huge number of the photos were paid for within the contracts Boeing and these companies signed with the U.S. Government and were paid for by U.S. taxpayer - as well as the blood, sweat and tears of the crews that flew - and often died in - the aircraft they built. In my opinion it is capitalism at its very worst.
On another point, if someone posts photos that might be accessible at the USAF Museum, the National Archives or other places where the items would be in the Public Domain and doesn't indicate that source, I think they are rather robbing interested parties and researchers of the opportunity to learn the location and go and research themselves.
I realize that I'm something of a stickler on this subject, but I was trained as an historian and that is also why I'm known for the thoroughness and quality of my research.
Respectfully submitted,
AlanG
Falke, a copyright infringement can occur by posting copyrighted materials without the author/publisher's permission or the appropriate disclaimer that you are posting if for informational purposes and (hopefully) the legal code reference that permits that. The RAF, for instance, has copyrighted all their photos and can apparently be quite unpleasant to deal with if you violate that. As for Boeing for example, they have decided to make their legal department a profit center and try to squeeze blood out of anyone wanting use anything in their collection - despite that fact that many of the photos are from companies they have purchased over the years and that a huge number of the photos were paid for within the contracts Boeing and these companies signed with the U.S. Government and were paid for by U.S. taxpayer - as well as the blood, sweat and tears of the crews that flew - and often died in - the aircraft they built. In my opinion it is capitalism at its very worst.
On another point, if someone posts photos that might be accessible at the USAF Museum, the National Archives or other places where the items would be in the Public Domain and doesn't indicate that source, I think they are rather robbing interested parties and researchers of the opportunity to learn the location and go and research themselves.
I realize that I'm something of a stickler on this subject, but I was trained as an historian and that is also why I'm known for the thoroughness and quality of my research.
Respectfully submitted,
AlanG
- Thread starter
- #15
1970 USAF Mt. Home AFB 366th Tac Fgtr wing photo lab & Graphics shop (as a graphic artist we were always grouped with the base photo lab as far as command), S.E. Asia 1971, ANG in Washinton State 116th Ftr Sq 1974, here was the photo rescue from trash ( about 400 mostly 8x10 contact prints some with 8x10 negs) plus additional prints from their public relations files. 1976 Calif ANG , MATs, 1977 Iowa ANG 124th ftr sq , many photos from the ANG public relations files ( mostly 50's, 60's, 70's ANG and U.S. jets and prop planes). Then since extensive ebay purchases (until dealers made t hat cost prohibitive) and trades with other friends and collectors.
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