Pilot/Aircraft Mission counts

[cwebster4]

I'm new to WW2 research, so I apologize ahead of time if this is a question that has swirled around this forum in the past.
I'm working on a project that has led me to the nicknames of specific aircraft.
I'm curious how I can discover how many missions that aircraft might have been on, and conversely, the names of the pilots and crews members. I am also interested to discover how many hours/missions the pilots flew in the specific aircraft.

Thank you for your advice,

Charlie

 

[Buzz Rickson]

There are a lot of factors here, and there certainly are many ways to go about this. For instance, your methods and sources might differ greatly if you're only researching US aircraft vs. RAF aircraft, or USAAF aircraft vs. USN aircraft.

Would need to know more specifics of what you're searching for.

 

[Snautzer01]

See here: eBay Nose art (all nations)

Then you will find out there is no rule.

 

[mjfur]

This is going to be extremely difficult to accomplish for various reasons.

The B-26 aircraft Flak Bait flew 202 missions. Flak-Bait - Wikipedia
Crews did not always stay together for all missions due to sickness, leave or injury. There would be dozens of aircrew that participated in these 202 missions. Your best bet would be researching the 322nd Bomb Group records and try to find a list for each bombing mission that Flak Bait participated in and the crews involved. It's very possible that you will find one crew member may have flown all 25 or 35 missions on Flak Bait while another crew member may have only flown 1 mission on Flak Bait as a substitute.

The B-17 aircraft "Nine-O-Nine" flew 130ish missions. 42-31909 | American Air Museum
I had a neighbor who was in the 91st Bomb Group, he flew 17 of his 35 missions on the Nine-O-Nine. You could be assigned any aircraft as needed.

As for hours in a specific aircraft, that info would only be available in that specific pilots logbook.

The variations for your research are staggering.

 

[cwebster4]

There are a lot of factors here, and there certainly are many ways to go about this. For instance, your methods and sources might differ greatly if you're only researching US aircraft vs. RAF aircraft, or USAAF aircraft vs. USN aircraft.

Would need to know more specifics of what you're searching for.

I am focused on singular USAAF pilots from WW2.
I am writing about a dozen different aircraft and would just like to be able to say that a specific mission was the ## of missions for that pilot.

 

[cwebster4]

This is going to be extremely difficult to accomplish for various reasons.

The B-26 aircraft Flak Bait flew 202 missions. Flak-Bait - Wikipedia
Crews did not always stay together for all missions due to sickness, leave or injury. There would be dozens of aircrew that participated in these 202 missions. Your best bet would be researching the 322nd Bomb Group records and try to find a list for each bombing mission that Flak Bait participated in and the crews involved. It's very possible that you will find one crew member may have flown all 25 or 35 missions on Flak Bait while another crew member may have only flown 1 mission on Flak Bait as a substitute.

The B-17 aircraft "Nine-O-Nine" flew 130ish missions. 42-31909 | American Air Museum
I had a neighbor who was in the 91st Bomb Group, he flew 17 of his 35 missions on the Nine-O-Nine. You could be assigned any aircraft as needed.

As for hours in a specific aircraft, that info would only be available in that specific pilots logbook.

The variations for your research are staggering.

Sounds like a plan. I have found mission reports that list, in some cases, my subject aircrafts, but these aircraft seem to have more of a revolving door of pilots.
I'm still trying to figure out where these mission reports reside. I have reached out to AF Historical Research agency and the National Archives, but response as of yet.
Any clues?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I am focused on singular USAAF pilots from WW2.
I am writing about a dozen different aircraft and would just like to be able to say that a specific mission was the ## of missions for that pilot.

Research the airplane, count up mission logs, and compile the results.

 

[Checkertail20]

I am not very knowledgeable on bombers and just a little more knowledgeable on fighters but I know that planes could be flown by different pilots due to an illness or a pilot rotated home. Another factor is if a new fighter group had just been stationed overseas and were training then some of their planes would get sent to an active fighter group who was in need of planes.

 

[Buzz Rickson]

I am focused on singular USAAF pilots from WW2.
I am writing about a dozen different aircraft and would just like to be able to say that a specific mission was the ## of missions for that pilot.

It sounds like your best bet may be to start with a particular Bomb group (or fighter group) and go from there.

For instance, my grandfather flew B-17's with the 351st Bomb Group. Now, luckily, the 351st has an extensive website that lists all missions for all of the bomb group members and has a search tool as well. So if I wish to see the particular missions (and aircraft) that a crewman flew, all I have to do is search by last name to find the airman, and I'm generated with a list of missions as well as what aircraft the airman was aboard during each mission. It also works backwards and you could search by aircraft instead.

Does every bomb/fighter group have that sort of database all in one place? I doubt it. That's where the challenge lies. For those groups, you'll probably have to rely on a few different sources to gather your information. The American Air Museum website may be a good start.

As for the aircrew reports you speak of, you might want to contact the 8th Air Force Museum in Savannah, GA. I don't know how willing they are to share records from their own archives but if those records do exist, they'd be the ones to have them.

 

[mjfur]

I am focused on singular USAAF pilots from WW2.
I am writing about a dozen different aircraft and would just like to be able to say that a specific mission was the ## of missions for that pilot.

The information for "singular USAAF pilots" would need to come from their Logbooks if they still exist. That's where you would find the specific aircraft they flew on which mission and for how long. These Logbooks would be personal property and reside with the family unless donated to a museum.

The "dozen different aircraft" will require the Fighter Group History for every mission flown and which aircraft participated.

NARA and the AFHRE are the correct places to look, but for best results you really may need to go there and dig yourself and sometimes the information you are looking for just doesn't exist.

Are you aware that NARA is adding files on-line? Sometimes you need to think outside of the box with your search terms though.

https://catalog.archives.gov/

https://catalog.archives.gov/search?page=1&q=fighter%20group

 

[cvairwerks]

Charlie, If you luck out, you might be able to find copies of Individual Flight Records for the pilots. Here's one for my uncle, for Jan 1945. While it doesn't show which particular a/c he was flying, it does show the type. Note the number of missions, the total flight time and daily flight hours with the mission counts. This was the busiest month for him, of the records that I have. Between October 1944 and January 1945, he flew more than 250 missions in Burma. Note that "Operational Missions" include combat, SAR, evac and supply drops. One of the months shows nothing but combat missions, which means being involved in actually shooting.

 

[cwebster4]

Charlie, If you luck out, you might be able to find copies of Individual Flight Records for the pilots. Here's one for my uncle, for Jan 1945. While it doesn't show which particular a/c he was flying, it does show the type. Note the number of missions, the total flight time and daily flight hours with the mission counts. This was the busiest month for him, of the records that I have. Between October 1944 and January 1945, he flew more than 250 missions in Burma. Note that "Operational Missions" include combat, SAR, evac and supply drops. One of the months shows nothing but combat missions, which means being involved in actually shooting.

This is exactly what I would like to find. For my purposes, I don't think it is important WHICH aircraft because I have already been able to determine the pilot of each final mission or loss. Where did you find that document?

 

[cvairwerks]

I have to make some assumptions, based on family history. I believe that he got copies of everything he could, in anticipation of becoming an airline pilot after the war. Unfortunately, what is now known as PTSD and a very bitter divorce pushed him in to being a raging alcoholic within a year or two of getting out of the service. We had a number of professional pilots in the family between the late 1930's and the mid 1950's and that was where he was probably headed before the alcohol and divorce shut that down.

 

[cwebster4]

Research the airplane, count up mission logs, and compile the results.

I wish it were that easy. Most of the bombers do not have static crews, so that doesn't work. Only 3 of the 12-13 aircraft I'm researching are fighters, and they had a single pilot (thank goodness).

 

[cwebster4]

I have to make some assumptions, based on family history. I believe that he got copies of everything he could, in anticipation of becoming an airline pilot after the war. Unfortunately, what is now known as PTSD and a very bitter divorce pushed him in to being a raging alcoholic within a year or two of getting out of the service. We had a number of professional pilots in the family between the late 1930's and the mid 1950's and that was where he was probably headed before the alcohol and divorce shut that down.

I was really hoping you were going to say the National Archives or Air Force Historical Research Agency. But I'm glad he had the forsight to grab that document for your family

 

[cwebster4]

The information for "singular USAAF pilots" would need to come from their Logbooks if they still exist. That's where you would find the specific aircraft they flew on which mission and for how long. These Logbooks would be personal property and reside with the family unless donated to a museum.

The "dozen different aircraft" will require the Fighter Group History for every mission flown and which aircraft participated.

NARA and the AFHRE are the correct places to look, but for best results you really may need to go there and dig yourself and sometimes the information you are looking for just doesn't exist.

Are you aware that NARA is adding files on-line? Sometimes you need to think outside of the box with your search terms though.

https://catalog.archives.gov/

https://catalog.archives.gov/search?page=1&q=fighter%20group

I would love to find logbooks, but I know that is far and away a "never gonna happen" kind of thing.
The Group histories are very helpful. I've been able to find a few group histories online.
I've reached out to both NARA and AFHRA.
I'm trying to schedule an AFHRA visit.
I was just at NARA late last year, but this part of my research had not yet surfaced so it looks like another trip north is in order (but not until the weather gets warmer).

 

[cwebster4]

It sounds like your best bet may be to start with a particular Bomb group (or fighter group) and go from there.

For instance, my grandfather flew B-17's with the 351st Bomb Group. Now, luckily, the 351st has an extensive website that lists all missions for all of the bomb group members and has a search tool as well. So if I wish to see the particular missions (and aircraft) that a crewman flew, all I have to do is search by last name to find the airman, and I'm generated with a list of missions as well as what aircraft the airman was aboard during each mission. It also works backwards and you could search by aircraft instead.

Does every bomb/fighter group have that sort of database all in one place? I doubt it. That's where the challenge lies. For those groups, you'll probably have to rely on a few different sources to gather your information. The American Air Museum website may be a good start.

As for the aircrew reports you speak of, you might want to contact the 8th Air Force Museum in Savannah, GA. I don't know how willing they are to share records from their own archives but if those records do exist, they'd be the ones to have them.

I have been lucky to find a couple of bomb groups with a lot of information online, but most ar4e not out there.
I was not aware of the Eighth Air Force Museum in Savannah. I'm in Jacksonville, so that's a two-hour drive for me. Certainly worth the trip.
I'm going to check out the extent of their archives. I appreciate that information.

 

[cwebster4]

I am not very knowledgeable on bombers and just a little more knowledgeable on fighters but I know that planes could be flown by different pilots due to an illness or a pilot rotated home. Another factor is if a new fighter group had just been stationed overseas and were training then some of their planes would get sent to an active fighter group who was in need of planes.

What I have discovered so far, is bombers generally did not have static crews where fighters did.
My focus is on the aircraft, but the number of missions for the pilot of the airship the day it went down seems like an important part of the story
It seems to me saying a new pilot with 4 missions under his belt before he crashed a bomber is good storytelling. Just like a guy who gets shot down on his last mission and ends up a POW or dies. It adds emotion.

 

[cwebster4]

See here: eBay Nose art (all nations)

Then you will find out there is no rule.

No truer words were ever spoken (or written in this case)

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I wish it were that easy. Most of the bombers do not have static crews, so that doesn't work. Only 3 of the 12-13 aircraft I'm researching are fighters, and they had a single pilot (thank goodness).

I sure didn't mean to imply it would be easy. Of course crews and planes are interchanged, which is why logs for both aircraft and crew need to be cross-checked. It's a lot of work. I look at stuff like Parshall and Jim Sawruk have done re: IJN records and shake my head in amazement.