Pingel shot down into the Channel twice?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by smithart101, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. smithart101

    smithart101 Member

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    I was doing some research into the late great Bob Doe and was reading with interest the incident in which he refused to finish off Rolf Pingel having damaged his 109.

    That part of the story is well known:"In August 1940 he [Bob Doe] damaged an Me109 and chased it across the Channel. When the German pilot ejected his cockpit canopy Bob knew he was finished and would soon crash into the sea many miles from the French coast. “I flew alongside him. It was the first time I had seen a German in the air. He had taken off his oxygen mask. I wished him ‘bonne chance’ and turned for home. I could not have shot him down in cold blood.”"

    However what is confusing is that Pingel as Gruppenkommandeur of I. Gruppe JG26,is known to have been shot down off Hastings by a Hurricane Ace, John Beard on the 28th September and then rescued by the german air sea rescue.
    This obviously does not tie in with Doe's description of the incident as having taken place in August.Having checked Bob Doe's combat report for the 16th August, he descibes an engagement well to the south of the Isle of Wight in which he shot down a 109.
    To quote: 'I gave 4 bursts of 2 secs each.Smoke came from engine. It turned on its back and dived straight down to sea level.I followed. It landed on the water and went straight in.'

    Clearly he couldn't write about his act of mercy in his form F. The choice of words speaks volumes: he 'dived straight down to sea level.I followed...' implying the 109 flew at sea level for some distance before going in and that Doe stayed with it until it crashed. This matches the later account of his encounter with Pingel.
    Checking luftwaffe records I find no losses for JG26 on this day. However, Pingel wasn't with JG26 at this date. He was then Staffelkapitän to II./JG 53 (until joining JG26 on the 22nd August),II JG53 were heavily engaged on this date South of the Isle of Wight and two of their fighters were shot down into the channel with both pilots being rescued. One was Fw. Dinger, the other pilot was unnamed. My suggestion is that this was in fact Pingel.

    Simon
     
  2. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Over at TOCH this question was posted last year with this response...

    I verified the Caldwell quote in my copy of JG 26 War Diary. Still looking at some things for you.

    After some searches and going through my books I can see confirmation of the attack by Beard on Pingel on 28 September but nothing anout the August claim by Bob Doe. Mostly all the same wording but nothing definate including a date. This was the most extensive that I found.....

    History Lost and Reclaimed by James Bowman - The New Criterion

    I wonder.....
     
  3. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    Someone who has a copy needs to check volume one of Jochen Prien's JG 53 trilogy.
     
  4. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I checked my copy of the JG 53 history by John Weal and no mention at all.
     
  5. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    pilots downed on 16th Aug. Fw. Dinger of 4/JG53 and Gefr. Schulz of 6/JG53
     
  6. smithart101

    smithart101 Member

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    Thanks to all for the replies. If Fw. Dinger of 4/JG53 and Gefr. Schulz of 6/JG53 were the two rescued from the sea, I am wondering what happened to Pingel. Can anyone suggest another date for this incident? Its difficult to find another possibility as Doe only claimed 4 109's in August (3 destroyed and 1 damaged) The 16th August claim is the best fit.

    On the 18th over the Isle of Wight, he claimed one destroyed in a similar low level chase out to sea but to quote 'I chased it from 12000 feet to sea level out to sea. The fifth burst set fire to the engine and aircraft crashed into the sea'. Shortly after he fired on another 109 at 1000ft and hit the engine with two bursts ...'saw them enter the engine from the quarter. No ammunition left so returned' These losses tie in with 6 fighters lost in air battles off the Isle of Wight , all from JG27.

    The last claim in August against a 109 was on the 26th, 20 miles north of Cherbourg at 20,000 feet but this resulted in a clearly fatal crash for the 109...'chased E/A from 10 miles south of Swanage. Dived from above and behind at an angle of 30 degrees. Pilot slumped over controls and A/C went straight down. Saw him hit water.' JG 53 lost 3 fighters to combat with the RAF in this area, two (named) were rescued from the sea but Fw Holdermann was killed, described as being shot down into the sea off Cherbourg. He therefore seems the likely victim of Bob Does combat report.

    In September he made claims against only 2 109s- both inland (Sheppey and North of Beachy Head) The book Aces High by Shores and Williams incorrectly states 3x claims against 109s on the 4 sept when they were in fact Bf110's.

    what say you Wayne? I was hoping to produce a painting of this incident so would like it based on fact if possible!
     
  7. smithart101

    smithart101 Member

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    #7 smithart101, Jan 6, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
    some thing like this.....

    Pingels A/C is speculative obviously but if anyone has suggestions to make it more accurate, please say:)

    B Doe detail (1)revised.jpg
    B Doe detail (2).jpg
    Bob Doe and Pingel (1) - Copy.jpg


    cheers
    Simon
     

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  8. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    #8 Njaco, Jan 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
    I don't remember any Bf 109 Emil that carried national markings under the cockpit.

    EDIT: Wow! My mistake!
     

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