Production of Lancaster in Australia

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stona

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Mar 28, 2009
As the title.

I was recently told that a mission was sent to the UK in 1943 to explore the possibility of producing the Lancaster in Australia. The source is a personal diary which I have not seen, but which is currently being digitised.

Given what I know of the capabilities of the Australian aircraft industry, such as it was, and historic production (they did do well with the Beaufighter/Beaufort among others) this seems rather optimistic. It would have required a massive investment, and a suitably large and skilled workforce would have been required.

Does anyone else know anything about this or what became of it?
 
stona said:
As the title.

I was recently told that a mission was sent to the UK in 1943 to explore the possibility of producing the Lancaster in Australia. The source is a personal diary which I have not seen, but which is currently being digitised.

Given what I know of the capabilities of the Australian aircraft industry, such as it was, and historic production (they did do well with the Beaufighter/Beaufort among others) this seems rather optimistic. It would have required a massive investment, and a suitably large and skilled workforce would have been required.

Does anyone else know anything about this or what became of it?
Click to expand...
Hi

It is well known that the Australians built 54 Avro Lincolns (improved Lancasters) the first of which flew on March 17th, 1946. These were constructed at the Australian Government Aircraft Factory at Melbourne. The Australians also built Merlin 85s that powered 30 of them. Designated Mk.30(B) bombers and Mk.31(MR) maritime patrol aircraft (with six feet fuselage extension). So yes they could build them, just not in time for WW2. (see pages 407-408 in 'Avro Aircraft since 1908' by A J Jackson).

Mike
 
Scan0757.jpg


(Lincoln Canberra & F-111 - Stewart Wilson - 1989)
 
The Lancaster/Lincoln were assigned the code BD.45B which is in some documents. (The Beaufighter was BD.45A)

Week ending dates, order changes, according to the RAAF Chiefs of Staff reports.
1 November 1944, 52 Lancasters, 1 delivered
10 November 1944, 2 Lancasters from Britain, both delivered, 50 from Local production.
17 November 1944, 2 Lancasters from Britain, both delivered, 50 Lincoln 30 from Local production
Month ending dates
28 February 1946, 73 Lincoln 30 and Tudor.
30 April 1947, 85 Lincoln 30 and Tudor.
31 March 1948, 73 Lincoln 30.
30 November 1948, 73 Lincoln 30, plus 3 from Britain.

Lincoln officially built as 25 B.30 July 1946 to February 1948, 36 B.30A December 1947 to July 1951 and 12 MR.31 December 1952 to September 1953

108 Merlin 102 built June 1947 to May 1952.

In 1945 it was 61 Lincoln + 12 Tudor, for a period late 1944 to 1946/7 Qantas had an order for Tudor from Avro in Britain) and then became 73 Lincoln +12 Tudor.

The notes to the official production reports, which for a time post war have the heading Lancaster (Lincoln and Tudor) production, their take on the progress

November 1943, BD.45B preliminary arrangements underway. The order is for 50 BD.45B, with capacity to build 15 per month.
June or July 1944, order title changed to Lancaster.
February 1945 order title changed to 50 Lancaster (Lincoln)
July 1945, order now 61 Lincoln plus 12 Tudor.
August 1946 to 73 Lincoln plus 12 Tudor.
January 1948 Tudor program proceeding on the basis of 1 (prototype) aircraft being produced as an ambulance version and delivered by June 1949. It took until September 1948 for the official stop work on the Tudor program.

From Australian Archives Series MP450/1 control symbol 178. During December 1942 War Cabinet Directed,
"That arrangements should be made for the immediate despatch of a Mission consisting of representatives of the Department of Air and the Department of Aircraft Production for the purpose of selecting,
(i) the most suitable type of low and high altitude fighter aircraft and
(ii) the most suitable type of bomber aircraft for production in Australia.

The Mission were also directed to confine their selection to aircraft of PROVEN design and performance. Mission Personnel,
Mr. D. McVey, Secretary of the Department of Aircraft Production (Leader).
Group Captain W.S. Armstrong and Wing Commander J.P. Ryland D.F.C. from the RAAF
Mr. L.J. Wackett, Manager, Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation.
Mr. D.E. Callinan, a senior member of the staff of the Beaufort Division of the Department of Aircraft Production.
The mission commenced their investigations and Los Angeles on 2 February 1943 and returned to Australia in May 1943.
 
The Australian aircraft industry was fully occupied during WW2, my old company, CAC was building Wirraways, Boomerangs, and developing others, like the CA-11 Woomers as well as maintaining RAAF and USAF aircraft in Australia. as well as engine manufacture. GAF, next door, was similarly occupied building Beaforts and Beaufighters and maintaining other RAAF and USAF aircraft, not much opportunity or s[ace to build Lancasters.

Photo shows the CAC factory, with the engine shop on the left, office building, Aircraft Factory 2 centre (my place of employment) Aircrafy Factory 2 left. A mix of aircraft, C47s being modified (floors mainly I was told) on the right, P-38s centre, maintenance and repair and Wackett Trainers, B-26 Marauder, maintenance or repair. I am not sure what the three aircraft on t left are.... too fuzzy. GAF is off to the left out of the picture.

We ex CAC people don't mention Hawker de Havilland "Dirty Harry's"

The lower photo shows GAF during Lincoln production, the CAC factory is at the top.


1637050998766.jpeg
 

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stona said:
I was recently told that a mission was sent to the UK in 1943 to explore the possibility of producing the Lancaster in Australia.
Click to expand...

Yes, on the mission was Laurie Wackett of the CAC, but before all that, as early as 1941 there were discussions in Australia about a big bomber being licence manufactured in the country and the Avro Manchester, believe it or not, was the type first proposed.

Wackett wrote a report about the mission, passages of interest from which I'm going to transcribe here.

"With projects already underway in Australia for the Beaufighter, the Mosquito and the CA-11 (Woomera indigenous twin-engined attack aircraft), all twin-engined aircraft for duties somewhat akin to, if not actually for 'attack' duties, it did not seem necessary to select another such type and attention was therefore directed to a heavy bomber."

"In surveying the heavy bombers, there are two fields for consideration. The present day heavy bombers are the British Lancaster, the American B-17 Flying fortress and American B-24 Liberator. The new bombers for 1944 will be the high altitude pressurised cabin Boeing B-29 and the new Lancaster development for medium altitude.

"If Australia is to select a type with the best all-round proven possibilities, the Lancaster is undoubtedly the best choice. Firstly, it is at present the best bomber in use. Secondly, it could be produced to use the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engine which could have turbo-superchargers fitted and so would ensure its further improved performance at medium altitudes. Thirdly, it or its development would remain a possibility for local production during 1945. The new pressurised cabin bombers of 100,000lb gross weight, and with armament installations costing $US100,000 per aircraft, seem to be quite beyond our production capabilities for some time to come."

"It would seem therefore, that there is hardly any other reasonable choice but to produce Lancasters if heavy bombers are to be needed."

In September 1943 an order for 346 aircraft was recommended for Australian production, with deliveries beginning in September 1945, the first 100 of which were to be powered by Merlins and the rest by P&W 2800s. Meanwhile, Gen Douglas MacArthur opposed the production of Lancasters in Australia, advising that local production should be concentrated on twin-engined attack types, while heavy bombers came from the USA, which was what was happening at any rate as the RAAF received B-24s and was producing Beaufighters and preparing to build Mosquitoes at the time. In November 1943 the War Cabinet gave approval for the manufacture of 50 Lancasters by the Department of Aircraft Production, who had been building Beauforts under licence, but by this time, the Lancaster Mk.IV had emerged in Britain and at the time which variant Australia was going to build had not been settled on. It wasn't until February 1944 that the Lancaster Mk.IV, renamed the Lincoln was chosen for local production.

In support of producing the type, two war weary RAF Lancasters were sent to Australia, which received the RAAF serials A66-1 and A66-2. This is A66-2, formerly W4783 operated with 460 Sqn with whom it completed 90 ops with Bomber Command. It's on display in the Australian War Memorial, Canberra.

51694451885_3a8d6593c4_b.jpg
A66-2
 
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