Question about air formation sizes and other information

Discussion in 'The NAAFI & PX' started by Fleck02, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Fleck02

    Fleck02 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    Before I became disabled I was a driver - Taxi's, Buses etc
    Location:
    Elizabeth, a subur of Adelaide in South Australia
    First post ever, I am an author of Short Stories (and an ex-Australian Army medic 1976-79), I am writing some "Alternate History" - a favourite of mine. I need to know squadron, wing and group sizes (I only know those references) of the following:

    In 1985, F15's flying out of Germany, I need an excuse to have at least 30-35 fully armed for air to air combat F15C's flying about 100km to the south-east of Berlin - what size formation would that be.

    In 1945, about 700 B-17G's escorted by P51(D's ???) - how many? Bombing Berlin (or maybe anther target), being jumped by ME-109's, FW-190's and ME-262's.

    Obviously the F-15's jump on the defendng Germans - would the F-15's be able to listen to the tactical frequencies?

    Lastly, is there any records of bombing activities so for accuracy, I can hone in on a real raid - for reality.

    Lastly, were A-10 Thundebolt II's ever stationed in Europe? I thought a couple of strafing runs by a couple of squadrons over the German Lines in WWI at the Battle of Verdun.

    Any help would be appreciated, I just need knowledge that I can't seem to find.

    Alan
     
  2. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    I will get my sources out when I get home and give you a definate answer on what I can in a few hours when i get off from work. Until then here is off the top of my head.

    There were F-15s based out of Hahn AFB, Spangdalam AFB, and I believe Rammstein AFB in Germany. There are still F-15s at Spandalam I believe. I also believe there were some at Bitburg AFB (not sure if that is the actual name of the AFB though).

    Yes A-10s were stationed as well at Spandalam and Rammstein. I will get your a deffinate answer to squadon numbers and exact locations in a few hours.
     
  3. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    Allright here is what I have (I am not sure on time frames that aircraft were in Europe however):

    A-10's based in Europe:

    Squadron - Location

    81st TFW - RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge, England
    81st TFW - Ahlhorn AFB, Leipheim AFB, Norvenich AFB, and Sembach AFB - West Germany

    (Wing was split among several locations in Germany and England with each location having about 8 to 10 A-10s).

    F-15's based in Europe:

    36th TFW - Bitburg AFB, West Germany

    Other aircraft that might be of interest for your stories:

    F-16's based out of Europe:

    50th TFW - Hahn AFB, West Germany
    86th TFW - Ramstein AFB, West Germany
    401st TFW - Torrejon AFB, Spain

    F-111's based in Europe:

    20th TFW - RAF Upper Heyford, England
    48th TFW - RAF Lakenheath, England

    F-4 Phantoms based in Europe:

    52nd TFW - Spangdhlem AFB, West Germany
    86th TFW - Ramstein AFB, West Germany (Replaced by F-16Cs by 1987)

    Alltogether around this time there were the following aircraft stationed as part of US Airforce Europe:

    3rd AF at various bases in England

    76 F-111E
    85 F-111F
    42 EF-111A
    120 A-10
    36 RF-4C
    18 F-5E
    16 C-130
    29 KC-135
    4 EC-135
    4 KC-10
    Several SR-71 and TR-1's

    16th AF in Spain (later moved to Italy in 1990 I believe)

    72 F-16C
    Several KC-135 and C-130's

    Italy

    1 Group of F-16s and F-4s on constant rotation from other bases in Europe.

    Turkey

    1 Squadron of F-16s on concstant rotation from other bases in Europe

    Iceland

    1 Squadron of F-15s on constant rotation from other bases in Europe

    17th AF at various bases in West Germany

    2 Wings (aprox 144 aircraft) consisting of KC-135, MC-130E, and C-130's.
    18 RF-4C
    90 F-16C
    18-30 F-4G
    64 F-15
    18 C-23
    4 C-9A
    Large number of CH-53C, C-130E, UH-1N, UH-1H, C-12A, T-39, VC-140B, C-140, OV-10A, C-5 and C-141s.

    Hope this helps you some.
     
  4. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    23,059
    Likes Received:
    994
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Animal Control Officer
    Location:
    Southern New Jersey
    As far as bomber raids during 1945, a good book to give you reference would be "Battles With The Luftwaffe" by Theo Boiten and Martin Bowman.

    Such as -

    March 15, 1945 - 1353 bombers escorted by 833 fighters attacked German Army HQ at Zossen near Berlin.

    Lot of battles in March against Fw 190s, Bf 109s and Me 262s.
     
  5. Fleck02

    Fleck02 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    Before I became disabled I was a driver - Taxi's, Buses etc
    Location:
    Elizabeth, a subur of Adelaide in South Australia
    Thanks for the information guys - I am using the raid by Niaco as the raid, from what I have read about the F-15C radar sets, those numbers will make it fun - would they have overloaded it? Also, still need to know the size of formations - really only for the F-15's now. How many aircraft in a Squadron? What is the next formation up - a wing - how many squadrons in a wing, I know the British numbers from WW2, but not the 1980's US formations. BTW - name of of a AFB in Italy is needed, preferably something close to Rome, I have the F-15's taking off from Ramstein, but I need a destination.

    Thanks for the A-10 information, ten aircraft should be enough to wreak havoc.

    Thankyou so much for your help, my story has really taken off, when I am finished I am looking for a volunteer or volunteers to read it to let me know on the accuracy of the story (I recently had a professor of history read a story on a photographic mission to film history - he thought I did a good job, picked two errors, but accuracy is essential).

    All the best
     
  6. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    Well as far as the 80s is concerned if you are going to historically accurate there were no F-15s at Ramstein AFB.

    As for an AFB in Italy you could use Aviano.

    I might be wrong but I believe that a USAF Squadon consists of 3 to 4 flights of aircraft and 7 to 16 aircraft in total.

    A Wing consists of aprox. 3-10 Squadrons and aprox. 21 to 48 aircraft.

    A Group consists of aprox. 2 Wings and aprox. 48 to 100 aircraft.
     
  7. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    23,059
    Likes Received:
    994
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Animal Control Officer
    Location:
    Southern New Jersey
    I think you'll find alot of volunteer book readers here. :D
     
  8. Fleck02

    Fleck02 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    Before I became disabled I was a driver - Taxi's, Buses etc
    Location:
    Elizabeth, a subur of Adelaide in South Australia
    Guys, this is great. So if there were no F-15's at Ramstein - where were they?

    I figure that I am going to have a wing flying the border, seeing what they can get up to make sure that they don't intrude - gives me a good excuse to have them fully armed with drop tanks.

    Anyone in this forum will be welcome to read it for comment. My only problem is getting it into 5,000 words.

    Again - many thanks
     
  9. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    As I posted up there in the thread listing squadon numbers and locations. F-15s were located in Bitburg AFB in Germany.
     
  10. Fleck02

    Fleck02 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    Before I became disabled I was a driver - Taxi's, Buses etc
    Location:
    Elizabeth, a subur of Adelaide in South Australia
    Oops, I forgot to look - many thanks.
     
  11. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Video and multi-media communications expert
    Location:
    FL
    If you're looking for additional tension... The US had mobile, nuclear BGM-109 Cruise missiles stationed in Florense, Belgium and Sicily.

    As we used to say, "BGM-109 rocks Moscow hit after hit!"

    If you need a place for the good guys to hit, The Fulda Gap was always on the list of places likely for a clash.

    Fulda Gap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    .
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    I also believe there Pershing Missiles still stationed in Germany during the 80s.
     
  13. DBII

    DBII Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    unemployed again, health insurance
    Location:
    The Woodlands, Texas
    Sounds like fun. Will be be able to read about the battle? Have you seen the movie Final Countdown? The Nimtz gets transported to 1941. The Captain lauches F14s against the Zeros.

    I was stationed at Fulda 84 - 87. The Pershings where located in western Germany, somewhere west of Frankfurt. I worked with a launch officer for a couple of weeks. He would always joke that his war plan was to drive to France and set up at a Pub. The A-10 were working out of England. We had them for CAS missions all of the time. The Germans would also assign Alpha jets to work CAS missions. I always thought that they were a little small.
     
  14. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,775
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    Yeah they were in the west as you say. There were several near where I lived back in the 80s west of Stuttgart.

    The A-10s Wing was based out of England but they had 8 to 10 aircraft assigned to several bases in Germany at all times.
     
Loading...

Share This Page