R-2800 Powered Fw 190

[GregP]

Somewhere in here, somebody asked which R-2800 is used in Rudy Frasca's Fw 190 that is usually at the Planes of Fame and is currently at the Palm Springs Air Museum for awhile. I spoke with Matt Nightengale today (he is the builder) and the engine is an R-2800-52. It is run to stock limits when they deem it advisable.

When John Maloney raced it at Reno, he used 57 inches of MAP and 2,800 rpm. But it still had the skinny DC-3 prop on it, so it wasn't that fast. Now that if has a much wider-chord prop, it bites a LOT more air and is much more sprightly according to John Maloney. He should know, being the main pilot when it flies.

They have not lapped Reno since fitting the new wide chord prop, but John says it would NOT come in last in the Bronze again.

I said I'd find out and wanted to post the information.

 

[Shortround6]

Thank you.

This is a "C" series engine (actually a CB) used in Military DC-6 aircraft. It is "rated" at 2200hp for take-off dry to 4500ft at 2800rpm, and 2500hp 'wet" up to 2500ft ( might be over kill for the Fw 190 airframe?). It is also rated "normal" at 1900hp at 2600rpm at 7000ft.

These ratings are with 115/145 fuel.

 

[GregP]

John Maloney says it flies great. But he KNOWS it is not a real Fw 190 and doesn't have the strength of the original, though it does have more power than the original.

They herded it around the Reno course for fun, and HAD fun. Nothing broke and they flew the Fw 190 at Reno. How much better could it get? Just showing up drew a crowd.

 

[riacrato]

The more I learn about the Flugwerk replicas, the more I wonder how representative they really are of the real thing. No criticism, it's great to see them in the air and they give a great impression and keep younger generations interested in WW2 aviation.

 

[Shortround6]

John Maloney says it flies great. But he KNOWS it is not a real Fw 190 and doesn't have the strength of the original, though it does have more power than the original.

They herded it around the Reno course for fun, and HAD fun. Nothing broke and they flew the Fw 190 at Reno. How much better could it get? Just showing up drew a crowd.

I am sure just installing the R-2800 was an engineering feat in itself and a flying 190 ( no matter what engine) is a good thing.

One reason the question came up was somebody suggested the Germans could clone/copy the R-2800 but that would have been an older model ( B series at best) that had nothing in common with the -52 engine except the bore and stroke. Different cylinder fins and different head construction and fins means the cooling may have been rather different even at the same power level. The CB engines even use connecting rods that are 1 in longer than the rods in plain "C" series engine. That and the number of different post war R-2800 installations that the crew that built this 190 could study for inspiration mean that this particular engine installation, clever as it is, doesn't tell us a whole lot about how practical a German 190 with a R-2800 clone would have been, possible yes.

I wish them lots of luck and many, many years of happy flying with this aircraft and applaud their efforts to keep the shape as true as they could.

 

[mike siggins]

id love to fly it with the wrong engine or not at the shop here im always doing something that the factory didn't do or wouldn't do and some stuff comes out better thanfactory

 

[vikingBerserker]

It really has a DC-3 (as in the C-47) prop or is that just the name of it?

 

[GregP]

The propeller is a glider tug C-47 prop cut to resemble an Fw 190 prop. The glider tug props has blades about 3 times as wide as stock blades and they can absorb a lot of power. The real difference is that when used as a glider tug on a C-47, the pitch was quite small since the power was only about 1,200 HP. When you use them at 2,000+ HP you can change the pitch to USE the added power.

The R-2800 installation was not without drama. The first two test flights saw it overhat going around the pattern once. There are small oil coolers located all around the front inside cowling right inside the cowl ring and that wasn't enough. Matt Nightengale reasoned thaht this plane was not going to go into combat and they added two small oil coolers under the wings about 1/3 to 1/2 span and that cured the issue entirely.

The Flugwerk planes are pretty decent, but the fuselage connon mounts are not there, and they acted as bracing for the upper part of the engine mount. That simply weakens the engine mount to the point where the g-limit has to be reduced since a major part of the bracing is missing. It is possible there are other departures from stock, but the cannon mounts are the main culprit. They were quite sturdy! It is possible a replacement braced could be engineered and the strength restored, I don't know.