RAF Downham Mosquito crash in Barroway Drove

[Janice]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and am trying to find info about a plane crash in Barroway Drove near Downham Market during WW2. According to local stories the plane was a Mosquito from RAF Downham and the 2 crew were killed when it crashed into a cowshed.
RAF Downham first operated Mosquitos in 1944. Looking at DH98 Mosquito Loss Records - Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945 I have identified 3 possible crashes:
PF487 BXVI 139/608 Engine lost power on takeoff and u/c raised to stop Downham Market 4.6.45
PF496 BXVI 109/608 U/c collapsed in heavy landing from air test Downham Market 16.4.45
PF502 BXVI 692/608 Swung on approach and hit building Downham Market 8.6.45
Of these the last one seems the most likely but I have been unable to find anything in the local papers to confirm this. ASN Aircraft accident 08-JUN-1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito B Mk XVI PF502 confirms that 2 men were killed in the crash but doesn't give details of the crash site.
Can anyone confirm that this is the correct crash? Or point me in the right direction.

 

[Airframes]

I've had a quick look through my references, but haven't been able to find anything further.
Someone here might come up with something, otherwise, you could try the Operational Record Books for the Squadron for that period, held at the NA, Kew.

 

[Crimea_River]

DELETED sorry. You already have the info I posted.

 

[buffnut453]

The third one is the only one that matches the general description you have of the events surrounding the crash. The first and second events both occurred on the RAF Downham airfield itself. For PF487, retracting the undercarriage during the take-off roll was a common way to stop the aircraft if an engine lost power. It would make a mess of the runway but better than going full-bore into whatever object(s) were at the end of said runway. Similarly PF496 happened on landing so, again, was within the bounds of RAF Downham.

Here's a little more detail on the crash of PF502 providing the crew names:

ASN Aircraft accident 08-JUN-1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito B Mk XVI PF502

One other potential avenue of research is to contact the RAF Air Historical Branch. They hold all surviving accident record cards which may (or, alas, may not) provide additional details not available online. Best approach is to write to them directly but they get a lot of research letters so it may take them some time to respond.

I know the above isn't of much use but I do think you're on the right track based on the 3 potential crashes you've identified.

 

[Crimea_River]

She's already posted that link Buff. I agree the getting a copy of the 608 Squadron Operations Record Book (ORB) or the above accident records will offer further info.

 

[buffnut453]

Doh...I'm a bright lad, honest!

Time to hide, blushing, in the corner again!

 

[Janice]

Thank you for your input. I am posting a letter to the RAF Historical Branch today and will consider a trip to the National Archives.

 

[Airframes]

Hope you find what you need.

 

[stona]

Much of the information already found is from the squadron ORB. There is little more to be found about the aircraft. PF502 was a Percival (Luton) built B.XVI (Merlin 72/73).

Here is some more on the crew lost that night.

W/O1 John Charles Portway 1385470 is buried in Streatham Cemetery (CWG Ref 2429901). He was the son of Walter and Alice Portway of Balham. He was just 23 years old.

Sgt. Edward Scott Stephen 1588197 is buried in St Joseph's Roman Catholic Cemetery, Moston, Manchester (CWG Ref 2404067). He was the son of Leslie and Alice Stephen who hailed from the Isle of Man. He left a widow, Mildred, who was originally from Cleveland, Ohio. He was just 25 years old.

The tragedy of war written in a few lines, even if it had just finished..

No. 608 (North Riding) Squadron was re-established as a Mosquito squadron on 1st August 1944 and formed part of the Light Night Striking Force in 8 Group. By the end of the war the squadron had flown 1,726 sorties on 246 bombing raids for the loss of 9 aircraft.

Steve

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Steve, and saved our friend from having to visit Kew.

 

[stona]

'Lest we forget' and all that. The human story is more important than a wrecked aeroplane and these stories are always a tragedy for some and their families.

For details of the crash I can only suggest a further trawl of the local press,maybe extend it to the nearest principal towns an cities (King's Lynn, maybe even Cambridge). Local record offices/libraries and microfiche always guarantee a mixture of fun and frustration! I'm sure it would have been reported, though this sort of thing was sadly not so uncommon and would not be sensationalised in the way it would be today, particularly as, thankfully, nobody on the ground was killed.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Crimea_River]

Or visit the town itself, locate the building in question by talking to people. It's possible some eye witnesses are still around, though memories can be unreliable.

 

[Janice]

I have been speaking to people who might remember the crash. The only additional info I have managed to get is that the crash happened on 1st October 1944 but I have been unable to find a crash on this date. The closest is 9th October 1944 when the deaths of the 2 crew were registered in Downham district. From
ASN Aircraft accident 09-OCT-1944 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito B Mk XX KB261 it appears that this crash happened on base - "On return to their base in Norfolk KB261 the aircraft was seen to enter the funnels and then from around 1,000 ft. dive into the ground at 21:30 hrs. 9.10.1944".
The only other crash I have found where the deaths of the crew are registered in Downham district is on 8th June 1945 which has been the preferred option for some time.
Both these crashes appear to have happened on returning to base. However, an eye witness, only 5 or 6 years old at the time, states that the plane was coming from the airbase.
Trips to Wisbech Library to look at their newspapers and to Wisbech Aviation Museum are planned.
Janice

 

[buffnut453]

Best of luck, Janice. Please keep us posted on any findings.

 

[Crimea_River]

Thanks for the update Janice. Though useful, memories are frail and that need to be considered. Best of luck in your ongoing research. I came across a few of your inquiries whilst trying to look into your question and you seem to have the bases covered.

 

[Airframes]

Thanks for the up-date Janice.
It's possible that KB261 did not crash on the airfield itself. The 'funnels' mentioned are the approach 'lanes' at each end of the runway and, as the name suggests, are a funnel-shaped area on the ground, often marked by lights on poles, which, when entered, 'funnel' the approaching aircraft towards the center line of the runway, with the pilot visually assessing his angle (and altitude) to the runway.
Depending on the area, topography etc of the airfield, these 'funnels' can extend to well over 1,000 feet from the runway threshold, with the angle from the runway central axis being around 30 degrees on each side.
As KB261 was seen to "dive into the round" from "around 1,000 feet", it's likely that it was some way from the runway threshold, and very possibly / probably still over land outside the airfield boundary, perhaps within 1/4 mile, or slightly more.

 

[Janice]

Thanks for that info - I had wondered what the funnels were. The land around the airfield is fairly flat and slightly higher than the nearby Fens where the crash happened. A witness says the plane was making a lot of noise and was gradually losing altitude - no mention of a dive. The crash we're looking for happened 3 or 4 miles from the airfield so from what you say it is unlikely to be this one.

 

[stona]

Terry is correct about the funnels. By this date they could be illuminated, maybe even electrically. I would guess that the MkII or MkIII arrangement would have been in place so late in the war and this extended to at least 1,500 yards from the end of the runway, near enough a mile.
If the crash happened 3 to four miles away it was further away than the outer circle or lead in strings.

Typically, though not always, an aircraft would make a circuit around the airfield before turning into the 'funnel' to make a final approach and landing.

This is a diagram of the simpler Mk I sytem, sometimes called the Drem system after the airfield where it was first installed.

This was the normal procedure.

Aircraft approached the airfield at 1500ft and at right angles to the runway (1) in use. The pilot called the Control Tower identifying the aircraft, the Tower would answer "Proceed upwind." At this position (2) at an altitude of 1000ft the pilot called "Upwind" and later "Crosswind" at (3). Other pilots would be calling in their positions in the circuit. At (4) downwind, the aircraft began a descent to 500ft, the pilot reporting "Funnel" as he turned towards the runway; he hoped to hear the reply "Pancake" meaning he was clear to land. If there was trouble the command was "Overshoot". On successfully landing, (6) the pilot reported "Clear of runway."

This means that a landing accident would not necessarily occur along a line extended through the bearing of the runway.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Janice]

With regard to the Mosquito crash, I have now received info from 2 sources that the plane did not come from RAF Downham Market and from 1 source that it didn't come from RAF Marham either.

I am therefore back to square one. I have tried searching the ASN wikibase for Mosquitos without finding any likely crashes. A Mosquito is about the only piece of data that everyone seems to agree on.

With no info on squadron or crew is there any way of finding details of the crash.

I'm told that Mr Croxford received compensation after the war for the loss of his cow and shed. Does anybody know where I would be likely to find records of this?

 

[fubar57]

A long shot but here are Mosquito serial numbers....