Requesting hinomaru yosegaki flag translation

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Lightning14, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Shinpachi - I am new as of today but have noted in internet research that you have translated flags for others so I am seeking you out. I have three flags, two of which I believe are likely post-WWII GI souvenirs but a third I know the provenance of (my uncle) and it is definitely the real thing. I am most interested in the third and perhaps identifying its original owner for the potential of its return. I am a retired Marine and aware of the significance of these flags to any surviving family members. I will be presumptuous and send you photos of the third one first as it is the one I have the most interest in and perhaps you could look at the other two later. These were taken several years ago and I tried to march around the edges of the flag and hopefully did not get any of the characters reversed, Can you help?
     

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  2. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    In clockwise,

    久長運武祈(= 祈武運長久) ...................... Praying for your good fortune in battle
    正義 竹高秒(?) ...................... "Justice" by Taketaka
    英米撃滅 貞刈峯稔 ...................... "Destroy UK & US" by Minoru Sadakari
    至誠 ...................... Sincerity
    忠勇 ?? ...................... Loyalty and bravery
    溝口才助 ...................... Saisuke Mizoguchi
    祈奮闘 岡田一敏 ...................... "Praying your good fight" by Kazutoshi Okada
    祝馬場定作 ...................... Celebrating (Mr) Josaku Baba
    敵国降伏 財前政勝 ...................... "Beat the enemy" by Masakatsu Zaimae
    江平明 ............ Akira Ehira
    盡忠 大桐範吉 浦野義憲 ................. "Loyalty" by Norikichi Ogiri, Yoshinori Urano
    波荒キ太平洋ニ友ヲ送ル 登道男 村野虎松 大久保七郎 .......... "Seeing our friend off to the Pacific of furious waves" by Michio Nobori, Toramatsu Murano, Sichiro Okubo
    菊地永太郎 ...................... Eitaro Kikuchi
    武運長久 田原忠利 ...................... "Wishing your good fortune in battle" by Tadatoshi Tahara
    頑張レ 浜田幸夫 ...................... "Fight!" by Yukio Hamada
    正義 長尾豊太 ...................... "Justice" by Toyota Nagao
    忠孝 柴田荿九郎 ...................... "Loyalty and filial piety" by Jokuro Shibata
    祈武運長久 廣松忠市 ...................... "Praying for your good fortune in battle" by Tadaichi Hiromatsu
    誠心 高田豊 永田博 松尾敬造 ................."Sincerity" by Yutaka Takada, Hiroshi Nagata, Keizo Matsuo
    大東亜防人 野中?? ...................... "Defender of Great Asia" by Nonaka
    ??????????????????? 南(楠?)田初文(?) .............. writen too well to read by Minamida
    祈武運長久 梅林秋義 前田百合子 ...................... "Praying for your good fortune in battle" by Akiyoshi Umebayashi, Yuriko Maeda
    祈武運長久 一番ヶ瀬共一郎 ........ "Praying for your good fortune in battle" by Kyoichiro Ichibangase
    深谷アサノ ...................... Asano Fukaya
    必勝 高田正男 ...................... "Win" by Masao Takada
    忠烈 小野 ...................... "Unswerving loyalty" by Ono
    大戦奮闘 ...................... Struggle in the war
    征け太平洋怒涛を蹴って 南井常雄 ........................ "Go to fight passing over the angry waves of Pacific" by Tsuneo Minai
    一死報国 馬? ...................... "Die for the country" by Baba(Baba's father?)
    祈武運長久 ...................... Praying for your good fortune in battle
     
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  3. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Sir you are a supreme asset to this forum.
     
  4. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff Shinpachi.
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Excellent !
     
  6. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Wow - thanks very much! I've been trying to get it translated for years but for some reason the two previous times I tried the folks I asked appeared to be reluctant, perhaps because of the "Destroy UK and US" and similar sentiments. Is there a chance that the original owner's name is on the flag? It appears that the names are simply his well-wishers although is "Baba" a possibility?

    There are other Japanese soldier personal items which came to me with the flag, although I am not certain from the same individual, three of which I have attached photos of here.

    Given some research - in fact there is an excellent discussion here - Japanese soldiers' identification tags • Axis History Forum - the tag is a Japanese enlisted man's dogtag, the three lines being left to right, unit name, company number ( I believe the character at at top center is a "4"?), and serial number. It is brass. Could I please get a translation? If the flag has no name, this piece at least seems ripe for the potential of successful research and return.

    The second piece appears to me to be some sort of medallion or "fob" (see the top hanger) representing various trades (but with crossed flags at the top). I believe the "scissors" in the center are tailor's shears, while there is a brush at the left with perhaps paper and even more fascinating, a tiny abacus at the 6 0'clock position on which the beads are actually separate pieces which move up and down. It appears to be silver and the various pieces appears to have been added one by one and soldered in. Perhaps the soldier had been a tailor and this was some sort of "guild" or occupational keepsake? There are characters on the "book" at the 3 o'clock position as well as on the "scroll" at the 7 o'clock position. My camera is unable to zoom in far enough to focus properly on them. I would sincerely appreciate and ideas any of you might have - although I collected militaria for many years, I have never seen anything like this in any grouping I have come across.

    The third is a small wristwatch (perhaps an inch square) with what I believe is the name of the owner scratched onto the back (am I correct, Shinpachi?). It is missing its second and minute hands and is marked on the face: "Chronometer Empress". I have also enclosed a photo of the interior of the watch as it has a maker's mark (appears to be a flying crane) and serial number (397151). The interior is as clean as it likely was on the day it was purchased - thus I am fairly certain it has not been opened since the war.

    Sorry for the barrage of information, but once I got started I thought I would address all three of these. I realize these are personal possessions and have treated them with respect since I was given them.

    Thanks in advance!

    IMG_7384.JPG IMG_7382.JPG IMG_7385.JPG IMG_7392.JPG IMG_7388.JPG IMG_7389.JPG
     
  7. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I thought it was over.
    Translation is genuine desk work. Some may like it but others.
    Please allow me a few days.
    Thanks.

    PS: Yes, the flag owner was Josaku Baba.
     
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  8. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Shinpachi:

    My apologies for presuming upon your time - I didn't mean to. It's just that this was something I have been trying without success to address for several years and perhaps I got a bit too enthusiastic when you solved it. There is certainly no rush, please address if and when you have the time. But now that I know the owner's name, perhaps I can start pursuing the return of the flag. I have somewhat of a history already with "historical advocacy" such as returning medals to families and correcting errors in the historical record. I have attached for your information one instance among many.

    Best regards and thank you again.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Very nice Shinpachi. Your valuable time and effort are always much appreciated by the forum.
     
  10. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Important work you are doing there. I wish you the best of luck with your current and future undertakings.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  11. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, please let me pay my great respects to your philanthropic activities, Chuck.
    It's noble.

    Here is my answer about your collection.

    Dog tag:
    (Unit code) 3252
    (Branch) 477
    (Soldier ID) 57

    Miniature kit and what each item means:
    Manchukuo flag x Japanese Emperor flag = Friendship between two countries
    Helmet = Men in the military
    Umbrella = Women at home
    Scissors = Industry
    Writing brush, Ink stone, and Ink stick = Education
    "一手三元" is one of the most famous Chinese ink brands
    Abacus = Economy
    "暦道書/萬年皇暦" Calendar road statement book = History and future

    I think this kit was issued on March 1, 1934 when the Emperor of Manchukuo was enthroned.
    The wristwatch owner was Mori.

    01.JPG 02.JPG 05.JPG
     
  12. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Again, wow. I sincerely appreciate the extra effort you put into annotating the photographs as it will aid me in discussing it with others.

    Interesting - I wonder why the "fob" was carried all those years (if issued in 1934). Perhaps the original soldier-owner was present in Manchukuo at the time and was presented with this "commemorative" (what we in the U.S. would call an "I was there" item) medallion at the time. I just noticed that there apparently was once a cover to this that snapped in place like a pocketwatch case - there are the remains of a hinge on the side/bottom of the rim of the fob. It has no identifying information on it, so I'm not sure what I will do with it; but if it turns out that the dogtag for example belongs with the owner of the flag, I may just include it in the assumption it might have belonged to Soldier Baba. Or, perhaps include it with the Mori watch if eventually returned. Then again, if I find out that either Mori or Baba was an "old soldier" with service in China, that narrows it down as to who might have owned it.

    I will pursue the information on the dogtag - I noted in an old Axis Military Forum thread that there apparently is a master set of books with these numbers which could help narrow down the identity of the soldier in question. If anyone out there knows a shortcut to getting to those books (such as a subject matter expert on Japanese dogtags) please let me know and I will pursue.

    I will also look into the name on the watch, although I would imagine that there were any number of Moris in the Japanese Army at the time. Although again, if a Mori (on a list of Moris) had previous service in China, then that may place the original owner of the Manchukuo piece.

    Thank you for the compliment. I was spurred back into action on this as I noted a stack of Japanese dogtags in a case at a militaria show and it saddened me that they were likely removed from a person as a souvenir, thus making identification all the more difficult. Every one of those represented a person. The exigencies of combat in the Pacific dictated rapid burial of the dead and we did not go to the lengths we did in Europe to identify enemy casualties. However, having kept the tags with Japanese casualties even if buried would have greatly aided efforts since the war as those graves continue to be discovered.

    Thank you again. I have two other flags but as they are likely post-war GI souvenirs I will give you a rest and revisit their translation at a later date.

    I will be sure to post updates regarding any progress I make on the flag and the dogtag, watch, and fob/medallion.

    Best regards
     
  13. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Thanks - it provides me a great deal of satisfaction.

     
  14. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    Shinpachi - there isn't an identifying town, school, or workplace on this is there?

    Regards
     
  15. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    I didn't find them, Chuck.
     
  16. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    I'm
     
  17. Lightning14

    Lightning14 New Member

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    OK thanks - just wanted to check before the flag is turned over to the OBON 2015 researchers for potential return to Japan.

    Thanks again -

    Chuck
     
  18. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a good idea, Chuck :thumbright:
     
  19. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Well done Shinpachi!
     
  20. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks David :)
    I think Chuck does not necessarily have to care about the flag so much if his uncle did not ask him to return.
    If cared, that would be endless.
     
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