Shelf Of Doom/ Pt.1/48 He 111 conversion

Discussion in 'Start to Finish Builds' started by Ohm-men, May 9, 2015.

  1. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    This is a seperate tread of the Shelf Of Doom tread I started a while ago.
    The subject of this one will be the 1/48 Heinkel He 111 H-22 mentioned in the original tread.

    My goal is to finnish this model as a Slovak He 111 H-10 Paratrooper transport. This converting the original model.

    Here is a picture of the Aircraft I want to do. There are not many known photographs of Slovak He 111's and most are wrongly described as either H-3 or H-23 models. S-82 was a H-10 bomber converted to Personal transport for the Slovak Rapid Army, who fought with the Whermacht.
    0517-Heinkel He 111.jpg
    pripraven___he_111_s82_svz.20814_134745_23.jpg

    Now for the model, I started by taking it apart by carefully cutting allong the seams. THis way I could scratch build the Paratrooper interior, based on the H-20 preserved troop carrier of the R.A.F Museam in Hendon (Battle of Britain Hall)
    I went from the assumption that the H-10 used by the Slovak Air Force had a simelar interiour.

    Everything was made from various sizes of plastic card. I did try to capture the interior, as not that much will be seen once the fuselage is closed. But since I had to covert the "B-stand" back to the earlier type and had to add side windows for this particular version, I had to make some kind of interior.

    DSCF2987.JPG
    DSCF2991.JPG
    DSCF2992.JPG
    DSCF2997.JPG
    DSCF2999.JPG
    DSCF2996.JPG

    That's all for now. More to come...
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    :cool: Keep posting here. Well done.
     
  3. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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  4. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Looking good so far.
     
  5. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Yeah! I really like what you did with the interior. Bravo!
     
  6. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    I almost finished the interiour and put some paint on. I noticed that the interior aft of the cockpit of later made He 111's was a kind of bare aluminum with a sealer applied, that looked a bit yellow-ish/RLM 02(but not opaque). Some parts were RLM 66, so it looks prety lively. I have to come up with a solution to apply this to the model. So far I started with a layer of flat aluminum. Next will be a light coat of transparrent RLM 02, with some parts picked out in RLM 66. This way I can try my newly aquired Iwata airbrush and hopefully get the result I hope for.
     
  7. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Good work so far!
     
  8. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    #8 Ohm-men, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
    The first session with the new Iwata Airbrush went fine. I'm amazed how easy this Airbrush handles.(so far it seams like a good investment)
    I'll post pics later.

    Some furhter research into the He 111 H-10 model revealed that most came with a external PVC rack placed under the bomb bay doors. In the pics it's not clear if S-82 carried this rack, but I assume it did. Though it would mean they carried bomb sights as well, or they didn't and they just left this rack in place. The H20/R1 has the rack but no bomb sight or even the bulge/casing on the exterior...
    The rack allowed the aircraft to be used as a makeshift bomber, so it was installed on most H-10's.
    I think this rack can be scratch build. It would surely add some intrest to the looks of the model.

    From what I read on the preserved He 111 H20/R1 preserved at the R.A.F. museam, it seams the "B-stand" was originally not deleted. This explains why S-82 had the sliding cupola. So if an operational paratrooper drop was flown, the MG in the B-stand was most likely installed. I think I might go that route, again for intrest of the model. Since the nose gun was not carried. the MG FF opening in the nose was blanked off. Side guns are not visible in pics. Though the openings are visible. Perhaps in emergencies rifles could be used (as on the Ju-52)

    Though from what I read, the development of the He 111 H series is not that substantional. Apart from engine uprates, different aranment. The differences from the H-10 to the H-20/22 are not that huge.
    Some sources claim that the H-23 was the final variant of the H series (a true paratrooper carrier) but so far I have not seen photographic evidence of this version.
    As it is (like the H-22 a variant of the H-20, which in turn is a H-16 variant...)
    Hence the difference in telling H-111 H models apart...Even historians seam to struggle with this.

    A lot of "if's". But contrary to Luftwaffe He 111's there is not much photographical evidence to support of oblitirate such assumptions. So I guess it leaves the modeller with some "artistic" freedom...

    The 2nd pic I posted of S-82, has accourding to some interpretations some RLM 74 or 75? (though RLM 76 could have been used as well, given the "lighter apearance in the pics) added to the RLM 70/71 splinter camo. This would explain the lighter spots in the photograph. As interesting this may seam, I'm not sure I want to follow this interpretation. Most likely the paint was quiet worn on this arcraft. The Lufwaffe codes were painted out and replaced by slovak national insignia. Therefore it's more likely a touch up of the paint work was aplied on some parts, instead of a RLM 74?/75?/76? mottle....

    Though a hindsight/comment of any of you would be greatly appreciated on this "camo" matter. As my knowledge on the Slovak Air Force is rather limited.

    Again, it's not sure which colour the Slovaks used to paint out the German codes, but since Lufwaffe aircraft were being build Czechoslovakia at the time, it's likely they had acces to RLM paints. So, later Lufwaffe colours as well...thus I likely will try to interpretate the original scheme (at least the past visible in the few pics) as close as possible.

    He is the most known picture of S-82. Acourding tho M. Ghriel (author of He 111 Motorbuchverlag biographie of the He-111) an H-23 were Slovak Paratrooper are boarding. Though the pic clearly shows a later closed sliding hood on the B-stand instead of the Powered turret found on the H-20/22/23 variant....
    Even though the picture is not of the best quality, you can slearly make out the "frame" of the sliding hood on the B-stand.
    slovak_paratroopers_boarding_a_heinkel_he_111h_23_by_zared_tregonwell-d8onra0.png
    Here the "mottle" seen in the other pics is not visible. Though it apears to be the same aircraft...
     
  9. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #9 Wurger, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
    The HR model - Czech offers a 1/72 scale decal sheet for the Slovac He-111s. According to the instruction the suggested camo was of RLM74/75/76 with yellow band on the fuselage and wing tips at the wing undersides. Unfortunately there are typos in the text because the instruction is also for the S-81.

    hrd7220_He111h_10_slovak.jpg


    Also I found a side sketch of the fuselage for H-10 variant.

    He111H10.jpg
     
  10. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    And here is a profile of the plane I found via the Internet ... the camo colours RLM74/75/76 are affirmed by the caption too.

    Slovak He-111H-10.jpg
     
  11. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    Thanks Wojtek! :)

    I'm still not convinced on the RLM 74/75/76 colour scheme. Though I find it a very interesting idea...
    This would mean the aircraft was repainted by the Slovak's, which is possible as large RLM paint stocks would be availble. Though, if they would have done a complete repaint, I would asume they would of obliterated the German national markings in a better way? Unless, the repaint jow wore of, showing the Fuselage Balkenkreutz again...And since they Allied with the Luftwaffe, why would they use German Fighter camo colours, instead of bomber colours? Unless they had no other paint availble.

    The contrast in the 3 pics is quiet different. The first 2 pics are dark, it even looks as if the undersides of S-82 are black. Where in the 3rd pick (were the soldiers are entering S-82) you can clearly see a lighter uncerside colour. But in this pic the camo apears darker...
    Again, it's pretty hard to interpretate the colours used on S-82.

    If only there was a time frame regarding the 3 pics of S-82. Somewhere between 1943 and late 44 early 45. Though it's not known when pic 1 and 3 were taken. Pic 2 comes from the personal collection of a Slovakian Officer, taken at an airfield on the vicinity of Minsk. Pic 1 could be taken there are well (surroundings look quiet identical and so does the apearance of the camo....)
    (But I must add that a He 111 in RLM 74/75/76 would look pretty unique, I still think it's unlikely...)
    I would be interesting to know where the RLM 74/75/76 paint scheme came from....
    Pic 3 was asumebly taken at Tri Duby (three Oak airfield in Czechoslovakia, later in the war, although not the best pic, paintwork looks fresher then in the other 2 pics?)

    But, there are no other examples of He 111 H bombers painted in other colours then RLM 70/71/65, unless the Hungarian H-3's painted in the Pre-war 3 tone Luftwaffe scheme (and some examples used in Russia and Africa)
     
  12. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #12 Wurger, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
    I think you may be right saying about the RLM70/71/65 camo scheme. However the pic1 shows that the layout of the camo spots wasn't the standard splinter camo for He-111. If it would have been there should be the dark spot but not the light one just behind the dorsal gunner station. What is more the RLM70/71 camo on tops always looks very dark almost black I would say what can be noticed in many B&W pictures of He-111. A such effect we can see in the few shots of the kite could be the result of being very worn or dusty. But even though , these camo spots of straight edges should havee been noticed at a couple of areas, e.g.. at the fin and rudder.

    Unfortunately all pics of the plane aren't of good quality and the "black' colour of undersides and fuselage is the light trick IMHO. I have enlarged the images and it may help I hope. I used the Gamma correction and the light undersides are seen in them. So no black colour there. Because there is no 100% of evidence I would follow the Slovak sources.


    He-111 S-82_b.jpg

    He-111 S-82.jpg

    He-111 S-82_.jpg

    He111slovak.jpg

    He-111H-10_a.jpg
     
  13. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #13 razor1uk, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
    Good luck with the modelling of this apparently rare type of bird :)

    ..is it me or do both the main and tail wings/planes have a noticeable 'nose down' axis to their attack angle relative to the airframe - surely this would make the flight of the aircraft seem 'tail heavy', prawn-like or hunchbacked..?
    It makes me wonder if this was done to try and minimise take-off lengths and ensure more effective controls (rudder tailplanes) at lower speeds at the cost of losing high speed 'cleanlyness' along its flight axis, i.e;
    with the aircraft appearing to fly straight and level with its tails 'centre' (between the fin/rudder and tail planes axis) being within the area described by the widest cross-section of the fusalage - if you understand what I mean.
     
  14. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    #14 Ohm-men, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
    Thanks again Wojtek :)!!! I hadn't seen pic 4 before.
    It's also interesting to know that the splinter pattern used on S-82 was not the standard (Heinkel) factory lay out. (Though by 1943 the He was build at a few plants, GFW, Rostock, etc...from what I've read)
    So, could it have been a refurbished machine, with a partly redone camo job?.(most likely prior to delivery to the Slovak Air Force?) You are absolutely right that in other He 111 pics the camo apears to be darker. (though since the source material is not conclusive due it's low quality)
    As it looks they blanked out the Luftwaffe Markings and replaced them with the Slovak National Markings.

    I also found this. An unlikely scheme for a He-111, but interesting nevertheless.
    he-111%20014.jpg

    For example, the Rumanian He-111 H3. (very well known) wore the pre war camo.
    Looking at the contrast of the colours, which look somewhat like S-82.
    Just for illustrational purpose.
    1535398_635468513181986_708114550_n.jpg

    Looking at the pics again, I came to the conclusion that S-82 was an early H-10. having the early closed B-stand canopy (non armoured variant, visible in pic 3) Most likely it did not have the ETC/PVC fuselage rack installed. And did most likely not cary the Naso cuto nose for low levell bombing.
    So, it could be converted to the transport role (together with S-81) which would suport the theory of it being a refurbished machine. Again assumptions, as no data of these machines seam to exist.

    @ razor1uk, I get what you are implying. The He-111 did have a nose down look in straight level flight.
    Though not as heavy as a Whitley bomber. As I think the lift of the Eleptic wign created a certain lift to the aircraft. (If I understud correctly) Though I think that the overall construction/lay out of the He-111 in general limeted it's further/later development (as I read it was more are less an enlarged He-70). Though given the fact it severd a decade in the Luftwaffe alone in about the same apearance, I think it did quiet ok. But it was never meanth to be used that long....
     
  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #15 Wurger, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
    According to my references the splinter pattern for He-111 was clearly specified. There were the A and B variants of that. Please pay your attention to these two characteristic "teeth" at the top of the fuselage behind the gunner station. If you have a look at these sketches you will notice the S-82 was of non standard one. However, the camo of the Slovak He-111 seems to be lighter than the RLM70/71 camo and quite worn though. I have found a couple more images showing that. The pic source: the Internet.

    He-111 camo.jpg

    He-111 camo_.jpg



    Slovak He-111H-10 Tri Duby 1943.jpg

    Slovak He-111H-10 Tri Duby 1943_.jpg

    Slovak He-111H-10 Tri Duby 1943_a.jpg


    Not sure which one of the Slovak two He-111H it is...
    Slovak He-111H-10_1a.jpg
     
  16. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Nice work on the inards...:D
     
  17. SANCER

    SANCER Active Member

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    Lesson interesting and formidable companions :shock: ... I have realized that the level of interest and detail as well as the developments that have taken model making allow us to make history is always present.
    Research and documentation that you made, open our eyes to those who continue to grow in this learning. :read2:
    This rare and not well documented version of the H-111 makes your work more interesting and the great work that you carry so far with the amendments, many of us will have front row seats to follow. :happy1:

    Saludos amigos :thumbup:

    Luis Carlos
     
  18. Ohm-men

    Ohm-men Active Member

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    I got a little bit of work done on the He 111.
    Looking at the Aero Detail pics of the H-20, I tried to replicate the colour of the fuselage.
    DSCF3001.JPG
    DSCF3002.JPG
    DSCF3004.JPG
    DSCF3005.JPG
    DSCF3006.JPG
    DSCF3007.JPG
    DSCF3008.JPG
    I'll have to add a few more detail, but not too much.
    Sinde windows will be replaced with clear acetate.
    These are some pics from the Earo Detail Book.
    Depending on what film used to photograph S-82, I still think th ebomber carried RLM 70/71 over 65.
    THough as Wojtek pointed out, not the factory scheme. I "think" the fuselage was partly repainted, thus eliminating the "finer" details of the factory pattern. The "spikes" aft of the rear gunners canopy are clearly gone on S-82. Most likely the painting out of the Luftwaffe markings caused the cama to apear different. I think I'll use the factoru schematic for the wings and tailplaines and the pics of S-82 for the fuselage camo.
    But looking at other He-111's, the contrast between the upper camo colours looks the same as on S-82
    DSCF3009.JPG
    DSCF3010.JPG
    DSCF3011.JPG
     
  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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  20. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Nicely done so far!
     
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