Spitfire does it have a single-spar wing

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by thedab, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. thedab

    thedab Member

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    And does it make it a weak wing???
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Went through this on an older thread. It has a single main spar but does have two spars in the wing.
     
  3. Kryten

    Kryten Member

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    Weak compared to what?, for it's application the wing was strong and reliable enough to carry the aircrafts various marks without a major redesign, it carried less bomb weight than a hurricane but unclear if that's due to lift rather than strength?
     
  4. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading somewhere that a clipped wing Spit could carry a heavier bomb load than a normal wing Spit, this seems counterintuitive to me surely a bigger wing means more useable lift.
     
  5. Procrastintor

    Procrastintor Member

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    Perhaps less drag, which allows for some added bomb weight. Just a guess though.
     
  6. thedab

    thedab Member

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    #6 thedab, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  7. riacrato

    riacrato Member

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    #7 riacrato, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    Are you a troll trying to cause another flame war or am I just getting paranoid :D ?

    Anyway, I suggest you search for that other thread about this topic. Pretty much everything to be said was said there. To put it as neutral as possible:

    Group 1 will say: On a single spar wing, one spar (the main spar) and the leading edge form the (D-)box that bears most of the forces / loads acting on the wing. The wing can still have one or more secondary spars, to hinge control surfaces to, but the load distribution makes it a single spar wing. This point of view defines the Spitfire and Bf 109 as single spar designs and is the pov of your article's author.

    Group A will say: Simply count the spars. By that definition the Spitfire has two spars and the Bf 109 has three, I think, but I'm not sure on the latter.
     
  8. riacrato

    riacrato Member

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    And now for my personal opinion:

    Ask yourself, is a bicycle with training wheels a bicycle or is it a quadracycle?
    *runs*
     
  9. thedab

    thedab Member

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    Sorry all, I just found that old thread, the search is not working for me, so I had to go through aviation page by page.

    so sorry about that.
     
  10. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I often find its better to do a google search than use the search function
     
  11. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Beverley Shenstone described the Spitfire wing, in writing, as having a single spar (plus D box). That's good enough for me.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  12. thedab

    thedab Member

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    it look like that the undercarriage is mounted to the wing main spar.

    how much force go through that spar on landing???
     
  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    The wing has two spars. I don't care who says what, I don't care if you raise RJ Mitchel from the grave. It had TWO spars!
     

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  14. Aozora

    Aozora Well-Known Member

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    Looks like two spars to me...sparring partners? The main aerodynamic loadings were taken care of by the mainspar and leading edge box. From what I have read somewhere (wish I could remember where) the design of the undercarriage meant that the landing loads were distributed evenly along the centre-section of the spar, plus the design of the the spar meant that it was more than strong enough to take the loads; if anything, in a heavy landing the undercarriage pivot point was more likely to break than the spar was to even bend.
     
  15. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    #15 stona, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    No point in arguing. I know what Shenstone wrote, I can reproduce it here when I get home in about 10 days time. I may well have quoted him in that old thread in any case. If the word of the man who designed the wing isn't good enough for you then nothing will be :)

    It seems obvious to me that he considered it a single spar design due to the vast majority of forces being borne by the main spar (and D box). I don't have figures available for that or what was borne by what you perceive as a second spar towards the back of the wing.

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  16. cimmex

    cimmex Member

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    Every aircraft engineer will call it a single spar design. Show me one plane with aileron and flaps without a rear spar to attach them. I don’t know any.
    cimmex
     
  17. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, the man who designed it did!

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  18. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #18 razor1uk, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    With regards the Spitfires, there is a slim rear spar for mounting the flaps and ailerons to, this (was then, and now still) is termed parasitic or auxillary spar because it is designed only to handle the loads from them; the flaps and ailerons to the wing structure itself.

    Where a spar handles a portion of those too loads along with the weight of the wing, its structural loadings, flight loadings and associated stresses and has attachment locations main fixings methods too, it is termed a 'Single Spar Wing' funnily enough.

    Modern jets differ a lot from 40's props, even the teachers who teach the designers have changed along with systems, naming abbreviation methods etc, let alone 85+ years of technical development inbetween.
    Spitting dummies out too early eh? wait a lil' longer 1st at least..
     
  19. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    #19 FLYBOYJ, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    And every mechanic or assembler will call it two spars based on the reasons you have given! This "singe spar" BS was a marketing tool.

    "SPAR - any of the main longitudinal members of the wing of an airplane that carry the ribs"

    One could come up with a ton of semantics, bottom line there's two spars in a Spitfire wing.
     
  20. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #20 razor1uk, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    Obviously your ignoring the point of why its called a single spar wing FBJ, fair enough then, talk only about your own countries aircraft then. It got feth all to do with marketing, and all to do with loadings and stresses, that's why.
     
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