Spitfire vs. Dora mass battle (3 Viewers)

spicmart · Wednesday at 5:15 PM

PAT303 said:
I thought he said that about the TA152 not the Dora?.

He said that about the Dora. The Ta 152 he flew was an H model with longer wings which had greatly reduced roll rate but was a superb turner.

He assessed the Ta 152 to be the equal of the latest propeller-driven Britsh fighter aircraft given that the 152 has MW 50 injection.

In pure dogfighting terms a Dora with the same propulsion as a Ta 152 would be better as it is much lighter and has less wet drag area.

PAT303 · Wednesday at 6:40 PM

I remember him writing about the Spitfire XIX and TA152 also, the TA got the nod above 40,000ft?, I don't have my books with me to check.

spicmart · Thursday at 2:41 PM

PAT303 said:
I remember him writing about the Spitfire XIX and TA152 also, the TA got the nod above 40,000ft?, I don't have my books with me to check.

He gave the nod to the 152 above 10,000 meters (32,800 feet) against a Griffon Spit.
But he never flew with MW 50 injection without which the Ta 152 reached 684 km/h which was 56 km/h slower than that Spitfire.
(Somehow I memorized these figure but not which mark of Spitfire.)
Brown mentioned the Ta would have reached that speed, too, or even more with MW 50.
German sources gave the Ta a top speed of about 760 km/h with GM-1 injection at very high altitude.

dedalos · Friday at 3:03 PM

spicmart said:
He gave the nod to the 152 above 10,000 meters (32,800 feet) against a Griffon Spit.
But he never flew with MW 50 injection without which the Ta 152 reached 684 km/h which was 56 km/h slower than that Spitfire.
(Somehow I memorized these figure but not which mark of Spitfire.)
Brown mentioned the Ta would have reached that speed, too, or even more with MW 50.
German sources gave the Ta a top speed of about 760 km/h with GM-1 injection at very high altitude.

The spitfire that brown compared the Ta was the xxi. As you mention there was neither mw50 or. gm1. Additionaly , it's highly doubtful if the third speed of the 2 stage supercharger was working properly. Generally brown reviews are excellent but lack details about the condition of the aircraft under test
For example for the bf109 says " tested the bf109g". Obviously a g6 with 3 20mm guns is another universe than a g10 clean and using mw50.
Ammo loads, fuel loads are not mentioned at all.
Generally the Ta was a decent design but handicapped by poor materials and very poor building quality.
Personally I don't understand why the development of ta152, do335 continued after July 1944 when the Me262 entered combat.
As the original question , the operational D9s were far inferior from what their designers intended because of lack of materials and production capacity, and inferior fuel
They had no chance against Spit xiv.
A D13 produced as it should and with c3 fuel would be close but such an aircraft never existed.

Snautzer01 · Friday at 3:48 PM

dedalos said:
Personally I don't understand why the development of ta152, do335 continued after July 1944 when the Me262 entered combat.

Engines. And metals needed.

GrauGeist · Friday at 4:19 PM

dedalos said:
A D13 produced as it should and with c3 fuel would be close but such an aircraft never existed.

Two were built, one survives.

dedalos · Saturday at 5:41 PM

GrauGeist said:
Two were built, one survives.

Yes two, possibly more . But without aerodynamic features intended as standard, with no c3 fuel, suspicious operation of the 2 stage supercharger at the second stage, and surface finish below the American standards
No D series aircraft built according to their potential. The Tiger 2 was a similar case. A good design that never had the quality armour of mid war, and a transmission built with the proper alloys

bada · 2025-01-05T18:12:02-0500

Snautzer01 said:
Engines. And metals needed.

Not so sure about that actually...

Materials needed to construct the Junkers Jumo 004?

Okay so I know the Nickel, Cobalt and Molybdenum were the primary metals to construct the jet engines. What was the percentage of each metal going into the jet engine? Also what other metals am I missing? How much of each metal was needed in order to construct 8,000 units?

ww2aircraft.net

PAT303 · 2025-01-06T00:05:18-0500

So what are peoples thoughts, two flights of Mk XIV's in finger four formation go head to head with the same number of Dora's, after cutting through each others formation the Spitfires open the taps and pull into a hard turning climb reversing direction and begin the chase, if you were in a Dora seeing the Spitfires above and behind you what's your next move?.

GrauGeist · 2025-01-06T01:04:24-0500

I'd imagine the Fleigers would open the throttles wide and do a climbing turn to both gain speed and height while coming about for another gun run.

PAT303 · 2025-01-06T04:04:13-0500

GrauGeist said:
I'd imagine the Fleigers would open the throttles wide and do a climbing turn to both gain speed and height while coming about for another gun run.

Balls of steel on both sides flying head on into a blizzard of 20mm shells. If it was me I'd pull the nose up vertical and go over the top looking to come down from high and behind, it would be a difficult shot with high closing speed and high deflection.

Spitfire vs. Dora mass battle (3 Viewers)

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spicmart

Staff Sergeant

PAT303

Tech Sergeant

spicmart

Staff Sergeant

dedalos

Senior Airman

Snautzer01

Honourably banned

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

dedalos

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bada

Airman 1st Class

Materials needed to construct the Junkers Jumo 004?

PAT303

Tech Sergeant

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

PAT303

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