Supermarine Type 327

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by wuzak, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    #1 wuzak, Sep 14, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
    The Type 327 was an updated version of the Type 324, which was proposed to the F.18/37 specification which led to the Typhoon.

    The main difference between the Type 324 and Type 327 is that the former's 12 x 0.303" in the outer wing panels were replaced by 6 x 20mm cannon in the wing roots, as the 327 was proposed to as a cannon armed fighter.

    The engine choices were the Merlin RM.2SM (Mk X??) and the Taurus TE-3SM.

    The engine performances:

    Merlin RM.2SM
    Fuel: 100 octane

    [table]
    [tr][td]Supercharger Gear[/td][td]High[/td][td]Low[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Maximum Power (bhp)[/td][td]1,145[/td][td]1,265[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at Altitude (ft)[/td][td]16,750[/td][td]9,500[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]International Rating (bhp)[/td][td]1,135[/td][td]1,250[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at Altitude (ft)[/td][td]15,500[/td][td]8,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Power at Economical Cruising Speed @ 15,000ft (bhp)[/td][td]-[/td][td]233[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Take-off Power (bhp)[/td][td]-[/td][td]1,300[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]RPM[/td][td]-[/td][td]3,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Reduction Gear[/td][td]0.42[/td][td]0.42[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Dry Weight (lb)[/td][td]1,390[/td][td]1,390[/td][/tr]
    [/table]

    Taurus TE-3SM
    Fuel: 100 octane

    [table]
    [tr][td]Supercharger Gear[/td][td]High[/td][td]Low[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Maximum Power (bhp)[/td][td]1,165[/td][td]1,250[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at Altitude (ft)[/td][td]15,000[/td][td]5,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]International Rating (bhp)[/td][td]980[/td][td]1,080[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at Altitude (ft)[/td][td]15,000[/td][td]5,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Power at Economical Cruising Speed @ 15,000ft (bhp)[/td][td]-[/td][td]226[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Take-off Power (bhp)[/td][td]-[/td][td]1,200[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]RPM[/td][td]-[/td][td]3,300[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Reduction Gear[/td][td]0.444[/td][td]0.444[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Dry Weight (lb)[/td][td]1,345[/td][td]1,345[/td][/tr]
    [/table]


    Estimated performance:

    [table]
    [tr][td]Engines[/td][td]Merlin[/td][td]Taurus[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]All Up Weight (lb)[/td][td]11,312[/td][td]10,536[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Maximum Speed (mph)[/td][td]465[/td][td]430[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at altitide (ft)[/td][td]22,000[/td][td]20,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Speed at 15,000ft (mph)[/td][td]423[/td][td]404[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Economical Cruising Speed (mph)[/td][td]210[/td][td]195[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]at altitide (ft)[/td][td]15,000[/td][td]15,000[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Service Ceiling[/td][td]40,000[/td][td]35,500[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Take-off Over 50ft, no wind (yd)[/td][td]409[/td][td]465[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Landing Over 50ft, no wind (yd)[/td][td]439[/td][td]393[/td][/tr]
    [/table]

    Type 327 Speed and Climb Performance (est).JPG

    The wing had a span of 40ft and wing area of 304sq.ft. It was fitted with Fowler Flaps which covered 57.5% of the span.

    The wing was structurally very similar to the Spitfire's. It was described has having a single spar at the maximum thickness. It was built in 5 sections:
    The centre section was built with the fuselage and contained the 6 20mm cannon installation.

    The mid sections contained the engine, the radiator (buried in the wing outboard of the engine, fed from a leading edge intake), the main landing gear (folding inwards), the Fowler flaps and mechanisms and fuel tanks in the leading edge inboard of the engine (68 UKG each, and forming part of the structure) and in the engine nacelle (42 UKG each).

    The outer wing panels contained the ailerons. These could be swapped for panels conaining 6 0.303" mgs for the ground attack role.

    The wing section was of the NACA 2200 family, as was the Spitfire's.

    The basic dimensions were:
    [table]
    [tr][td]Engines[/td][td]Merlin[/td][td]Taurus[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Span (ft)[/td][td]40[/td][td]40[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Gross Area (sq.ft)[/td][td]34[/td][td]34[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Length Overall (ft)[/td][td]33.5[/td][td]33.5[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Height on Wheels (static) (ft)[/td][td]9.75[/td][td]9.75[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Chassis Track (ft)[/td][td]12.5[/td][td]12.5[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Wheelbase (ft)[/td][td]9[/td][td]9[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Airscrew Diameter (ft)[/td][td]10.3[/td][td]8.75[/td][/tr]
    [/table]


    The weight break down was:

    [table]
    [tr][td]Engines[/td][td]Merlin[/td][td]Taurus[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Structure (lb)[/td][td]3,776[/td][td]3,696[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Power Plant (lb)[/td][td]4,410[/td][td]3,809[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Load[/td][td]3,126[/td][td]3,031[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]All Up Weight[/td][td]11,312[/td][td]10,536[/td][/tr]
    [/table]

    The breakdown of the load was:
    [table]
    [tr][td]Engines[/td][td]Merlin[/td][td]Taurus[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Pilot and Parachute[/td][td]200[/td][td]200[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Fixed Military Load[/td][td]583[/td][td]583[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Removeable Load[/td][td]875[/td][td]875[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Fuel (at 7.2lb/UKG)[/td][td]1,225[/td][td]1,265[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Oil[/td][td]243[/td][td]108[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Load[/td][td]3,126[/td][td]3,031[/td][/tr]
    [/table]
     
  2. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    The Type 324 had been rejected in favour of the Typhoon/Tornado because the Air Ministry saw no advantage over a single engine type.

    A new requirement for a cannon engined aircraft came up, so Supermarine submitted its revised design.

    Some members of the Air Ministry were keen, as the only cannon armed fighter on the horizon was the Whirlwind, with the possibility of the Beaufighter and Gloster F9.37. Others weren't so keen, citing Supermarine's inability to rapidly build prototypes and bring them into production.

    Some features of the Type 327 were also criticised as unwaorkable - such as the cannon armament. At the time of the proposal the Hispano was fed with a drum. The Type 327 arrangement had the drums mounted in the fuselage, the rounds being fed to the guns via flexible feed chutes. This was thought impractical by some.

    One disadvantage the Type 327 had against the proposed Beaufighter was that it only had one crew member, whereas the latter had a second, who could change ammo drums in flight.

    Interestingly the Type 327 didn't have ejection chutes for the spent casings, but a collection box. Supermarines suggested that these could be reused.
     
  3. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    Thanks for the detailed overview.

    Some of the details can raise an eyebrow, however. The specified Taurus engine, featuring a two-speed supercharger, and offering more than 1100/1200 HP was never a real production engine, at least going by Lumsden. The specified Merlin offers more power than Merlin X at FT heights, but at a lower altitude than Merlin XX?
    The wing profile might belong to the NACA 2200 series, but it is not as thin as Spitfire's (circa 13%), at least when one looks at pics drawings available on the 'net. Supermarine was hoping for 430 mph on 1165 HP radials, the similarly sized Ki-45 was good for some 336 mph. The P-38L was not able to beat 430 mph mark, even with 2 x 1600 HP aboard (and admitedly no exhaust thrust).
     
  4. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does appear that the wing is thicker. My rough calcs show a thickness of 19% at the root.
     
  5. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    In case you haven't seen it ...
    Supermarine_327-02.JPG
     
  6. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Greg.

    That shows an interesting point of the Type 327 - the exhaust was taken via a manifold and dumped out the back end of the nacelle, an attempt to gain exhaust thrust.
     
  7. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is that may not work as well as short stubby exhaust nozzles. It may have lower drag though.

    Since exhaust thrust is dependent on the mass of the exhaust flow times the velocity of the exhaust gases at the exit/nozzle, long ducts that slow the exhaust gasses and/or allow them to cool (reducing pressure/velocity) aren't going to give the thrust of short/stubby pipes.
     
  8. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    True SR, but they may have not realised that at the time. There was a bit of development of exhaust stubs for the Merlin during the war, for both maximising thrust and reducing glare.
     
  9. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    #9 GregP, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
    Both of your above comments assume the model builder was correct and, in that context, are good points.

    I have seen several different illustration of the 327, and several don't agree with one another. I suppose that is natural seeing as how it was a paper aircraft and never flew. Changes are to be expected, I suppose. If anyone has a better illustration, post it by all means.
     
  10. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    I believe that model you posted was made by Supermarine.

    Anyway, a couple of drawings from the proposal.

    Wing layout
    Supermarine Type 327 Wing Layout.jpg

    Close up of nacelle elevation
    Supermarine Type 327 Nacelle.jpg

    Armament layout
    Supermarine Type 327 Armament Layout.jpg
     
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  11. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    Pictures of the mockup

    [​IMG]
     
  12. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Pretty darned cool, Wayne! Thanks!

    I think it would have been a bit better with two wings and three wheels, though ... asymmetric as hell! And ... no propellers to boot.

    What were they thinking? Too much beer, no doubt. Maybe Spitfire Ale?
     
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  13. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    Probably couldn't be bothered doing the other half because they weren't getting paid for it!
     
  14. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    No doubt about it. Maybe they ran out of sandpaper and decided to call it a a day!

    I like the rear ejector exhaust, but wonder about the field maintenance. Closed-in hot things tend to burn things around them and be difficult to work around. Perhaps it was different than it appears on the surface. If the manifolds were routed out of the way, maybe they weren't such a hit on servicing the aircraft.
     
  15. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Active Member

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    Beautiful looking aircraft. Supermarine really had an eye for flowing curves.

    The speed projects seem a bit … ambitious. Although that wasn’t uncommon with paper aircraft of the time. There were umpteen 450 mph + aircraft of the early 1940s that never made it off the ground.

    With only 1265-1300 hp, I suspect that the Type 327 may have made something more like 420 mph, maybe 430 mph.

    Wing area is about 93% of that of the P-38. Even if the Type 327’s single-fuselage offers a drag advantage over the P-38’s twin-boom design, I don’t see the aircraft making 60+ mph more than a P-38G with less power and at lower altitudes,

    Look at the Westland Whirlwind. Although a little handicapped by the Peregrines, it was smaller, lighter and had less frontal and wing area than the proposed Type 327 and made 360 mph on 885 hp. When Petter proposed re-engineering it to take Merlin XXs, which were producing 1125 hp at the time, the on-paper proposal speeds were 410-422 mph.
     
  16. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    Enjoy some bacon, wuzak :)
    Any chances there would be more schematics, or hi-res of those posted above?
     
  17. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    looks very interesting. i never knew about this a/c. looks like a possible contender for the mossie in some respects
     
  18. Balljoint

    Balljoint Member

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    It’s a shame that the Whirlwinds were parked up north during the BoB. An actual record of what this type of aircraft could do –or not- would be useful. Still, if the WWs hadn’t been operational, I can’t see building them.
     
  19. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the bacon!

    I do have some more schematics.

    Supermarine Type 327 General Arrangement.jpg

    Supermarine Type 327 Undercarriage Layout.jpg
     
  20. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    According to Wiki the squadron with Whirlwinds wasn't operational in time for the BoB and the aircraft were being delivered slowly. At one stage they had 5 Whirlwinds, all of which were unserviceable.
     
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