Swiss Fighter Evaluation Report Leaked, Rafale beat Typhoon

Discussion in 'Modern' started by marshall, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. marshall

    marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
  2. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    12,162
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Interesting post mate.

    Thing is, one weapon may be better or cheaper than another, but it's always politics that decides the sale. And usually badly.
     
  3. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,995
    Likes Received:
    438
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi, marshall,
    How come the Grippen is inferior to Swiss F-18s?
     
  4. marshall

    marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I'm not an expert (unfortunately) so I can't explain this to you, but that's what the report says.

    The Swiss did some flight testing (Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter, Swiss F-18 ) in 2008 or 2009 and later they evaluated proposals of upgrades from manufacturers to these aircraft and they concluded that Gripen is inferior to the F-18, at least in some aspects. The Gripen did not met the minimum requirements but they still want to buy it.

    You can read the report yourself, it's not long (though it's also probably not complete) and it's in English.
     
  5. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    12,162
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Sounds dodgy to me too have to say. Met some RAAF pilots while in the RNZAF, who lamented the replacement of their A-4G Skyhawks for F-18s. They much preferred the A-4.
     
  6. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Metalurgic Technician
    Location:
    Cordoba - Argentina
    I guess those pilots didnt know much. as much I like the A-4 there is almost no comparison between the 2 planes.
     
  7. marshall

    marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I know what you mean, it was similar in Poland when F-16s were bought, some people thought why we need F-16 when we have MiG-29.
     
  8. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,075
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
    That's surprising to me, IIRC the Grippen is almost half the cost.
     
  9. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    12,162
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Don't know mate, they flew them, not me! :)
     
  10. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,729
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    Mind you was it a C/D version or the NG (or E/F I think) they flew? The NG (E/F) will more fuel capacity, more hard points, super cruise, longer action radius, etc., etc. The Swedish Air Force will be flying this version before the Swiss....

    ---- upgrades jas 39 gripen NG ----

    • Increased range
    • Increased MTOW
    • Added weapons stores
    • Increased thrust
    • NORA AESA (Active Electronic Scanning Array)
    • MIDAS (Multifunction Defensive Avionics System)
    • Enhanced EWS
    • Advanced rear cockpit
    • Enhanced NCW
    • Full capability HMD
    • GCAS
    • Satellite Comms
    • Jammer Pod Integration
    • Improved LCC
    • Overall increased basic performance
    • More Internal Fuel, New Landing Gear
    • Increased Payload
    • Centerline pylon is complemented by two pylons for heavy stores
    • New main landing gear (Increased take-off and landing masses)
    • New Engine
    • Communications
    • Advanced data communication with FAC and other ground units
    • Electronic Warfare
    • Enhanced MAW
    • JSM (NSM), SDB…
    • Gripen D cockpit with some enhancements
    •OTIS-IRS-T system
    • Avionics Structure Rig Demo
    • New computers
    • Advanced internal communications

    Increase overall capability:

    • Better computer and bus performance
    • Reduce time to integrate new systems and
    functions (hours rather than months)
    • More efficient distributed development
    • Increase mission availability
    • Meet new (unknown) operational requirements
    • Easy Start-Up
    • Common avionic development for all flying
    • Supercruise…
    • Enhanced EWS and Comms suite
    • New ”State of the Art” Avionics Structure
     
  11. marshall

    marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16

    I did a little bit more research on the topic and I think that in 2008 the Swiss tested the C/D version as 2008 would be quite early for the Gripen NG. Though future upgrades were also taken into account, the upgrades of Gripen NG had a low credibility factor that's why in the early report Gripen had such low mark. Later feedback from Gripen manufacturer, Swedish SAAB, about Gripen development improved rating of the Swedish fighter and reportedly there was another report were Gripen met the minimum requirements and since it was the cheapest choice the Swiss decided to buy Gripen.
     
  12. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,075
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I love the Grippen NG, IMHO it's one of the finest aircraft around today.
     
  13. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,729
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    It's an interesting machine, it's been flying for a while now. See how they'll get on with the navalised(?) version, what comes out of that...
     
  14. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,729
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    #14 Lucky13, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
    Gripen NG and recent developments
    Saab Gripen NG demonstrator at RIAT 2010In 2007, a programme was started to upgrade 31 of the air force's JAS 39A/B fighters to JAS 39C/Ds.

    In 2007, a two-seat "New Technology Demonstrator" or "Gripen Demo" was ordered; it was presented on 23 April 2008. It has increased fuel capacity, a more powerful powerplant, increased payload capacity, upgraded avionics and other improvements. The demonstrator serves as the testbed for numerous upgrades for the new Gripen NG, also referred to as Gripen E/F, and MS 21. This version has many new parts and is powered by the General Electric F414G, a development of the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet's engine. The engine produces 20 per cent more thrust at 98 kN (22,000 lbf), enabling a supercruise speed of Mach 1.1 with air-to-air missiles (AAM).

    Compared to the Gripen D, the Gripen NG's maximum take off weight has increased from 14,000 to 16,000 kg (30,900–35,300 lb) with an increase in empty weight of 200 kg (440 lb). Due to relocated main undercarriage, the internal fuel capacity has increased by 40 per cent, with a significant increase in range. Combat radius will be 1,300 kilometres (810 mi) with six AAMs plus drop tanks, and 30 minutes on station. Ferry range will be 4,070 km (2,200 nmi) with drop tanks. The new undercarriage configuration also allows for the addition of two heavy stores pylons to the fuselage. Its PS-05/A radar adds a new AESA antenna for flight testing beginning in mid-2009.

    Gripen Demo's maiden flight was conducted on 27 May 2008. The test flight lasted about 30 minutes and reached a maximum altitude of about 6,400 meters (21,000 ft). On 21 January 2009, the Gripen Demo flew at Mach 1.2 without reheat to test its supercruise capability.

    Saab performed study work on an aircraft carrier based version in the 1990s. In 2009, Saab launched the Sea Gripen project in response to India's request for information on a carrier-borne aircraft. Brazil also has a potential carrier aircraft need. Sweden awarded Saab a four-year contract in 2010 to improve the Gripen's radar and other equipment, and lower its operating costs. In June 2010, Saab stated that Sweden plans to order the Gripen NG under the JAS 39E/F designation. The new variant is to enter Swedish service in 2017 or possibly earlier if export orders are received. However in 2011 it was revealed that any Swedish purchase of the "Super Gripen" would depend on a foreign order being finalized.

    By mid-2010 Swedish Air Force's JAS 39C/Ds had received the MS19 upgrade, which provided capability for the long-range MBDA Meteor missile, the short-range IRIS-T missile and the GBU-49 500-lb laser guided bomb.[41] The subsequent MS20 upgrade project includes full Meteor missile capability, and is to span from 2011 to 2013. Next the MS21 (Gripen E/F) project is to begin circa 2015, depending on the needs of a possible foreign partner.

    On 29 March 2011, the Swedish prime minister announced that eight Gripens would be deployed to support the UN-mandated no-fly zone over Libya. The Swedish fighters are limited to supporting the no-fly zone and will not perform ground attack sorties. Parts of the media speculate that the Gripen's involvement may encourage sales. On 8 June 2011, the Swedish government announced an agreement to extend the deployment of the five Gripens. As of 24 October 2011 (2011 -10-24), Gripens have flown more than 650 combat missions, almost 2,000 flight hours and delivered approximately 2000 reconnaissance reports to NATO.

    Just for the sake of talking... :lol: 150.000 flight hours without an engine failure, IS rather good, isn't it? And, the new engine, same as the one in the F-18E/F Super Hornet right, wonder if there was anything up in the Swedes sleves when it was developed, as Volvo Flygmotor was very much involved in that... :lol:
     
Loading...

Share This Page