Target Tugs?

comiso90 · Oct 24, 2007

Target Tugs?

How dangerous was it for the pilot? I know little about them except for occasional references to obsolete aircraft converted to target tugs...

What altitude would they fly?
How long was the tether to the target?
Did the tugs have extra armor?
What did the different targets look like?
Did they simply fly straight level and back and forth or did they use evasive maneuvers?
Did they fly at night?

It must have been a harrowing job for the pilots! it would have been a fun way to break the monotony on the open ocean... spraying lead at aerial targets.

The P-63's in "pinball" mode are interesting:

"Pinball" operations

Its main use in American service was the unusual one of a manned flying target for gunnery practice. The aircraft was generally painted bright orange to increase its visibility. All armament and the regular armor was removed from these RP-63 aircraft, and over a ton of armored sheet metal was applied to the aircraft. This was fitted with sensors that would detect hits, and these hits were signalled by illuminating a light in the propeller hub where the cannon would have been. This earned the aircraft the unofficial nickname of Pinball. Special frangible rounds made of a lead/graphite combination were developed that would disintegrate upon impact.

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P-63 Kingcobra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bell P-63 Kingcobra - History, Specifications and Pictures - Military and Civilian Aircraft

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ccheese · Oct 24, 2007

I flew in target tugs, in the late 50's, but we towed target sleeves. Most
of the time we'd be flying for some of the destroyers off the coast. They'd
be using .50 cal ammo. We would do what ever they requested, and fly
at the altitude they desired. Most of the time we were between 1,000 and
1,500 feet, and would fly across them, as a torpedo plane would, or up
or down whichever side they wanted. We were flying B-26's and A-20's.
When we were finished we'd drop the sleeve so they could retrieve it.
It was a kinda "ho-hum" flight.

Charles

Micdrow · Oct 25, 2007

I will have to do some digging, I remember reading an article about a pilot that was flying a target tug for another aircraft for target practice. Something went wrong and the test gunner accidently put a 50 cal round through the target tug pilot shattering his shoulder.

comiso90 · Oct 25, 2007

ccheese said:
I flew in target tugs, in the late 50's, but we towed target sleeves. Most
of the time we'd be flying for some of the destroyers off the coast. They'd
be using .50 cal ammo. We would do what ever they requested, and fly
at the altitude they desired. Most of the time we were between 1,000 and
1,500 feet, and would fly across them, as a torpedo plane would, or up
or down whichever side they wanted. We were flying B-26's and A-20's.
When we were finished we'd drop the sleeve so they could retrieve it.
It was a kinda "ho-hum" flight.

Charles

I did'nt know they used A-20's ans B-26's as tugs.... makes sense.

How far from the plane was the target?

If you were on a "torpedo run", I'd think you'd be flying directly at the ship. Does that mean that the target was dragged below the tug so they could shoot directly at you?

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comiso90 · Oct 25, 2007

Micdrow said:
I will have to do some digging, I remember reading an article about a pilot that was flying a target tug for another aircraft for target practice. Something went wrong and the test gunner accidently put a 50 cal round through the target tug pilot shattering his shoulder.

ouch...

it seems that there are little tolerance for mistakes when live ammo is used. I'd like to know if accidents were common.

ccheese · Oct 25, 2007

comiso90 said:
I did'nt know they used A-20's ans B-26's as tugs.... makes sense.
How far from the plane was the target?

If you were on a "torpedo run", I'd think you'd be flying directly at the ship. Does that mean that the target was dragged below the tug so they could. shoot directly at you?

Most times, when torpedo planes are attacking a ship, they will divide
and come in on each side, at an angle. That way no matter which way
the ship turns to "comb the tracks" they got a better chance of a hit.

We'd usually come in at an angle, either on the bow or the stern. The
target sleeve was quite a distance behind us, I would guess 300 yds
or more. I've heard of the cable being clipped, but never a plane hit.

We had B-26's and A-20's for towing targets and mock torpedo runs,
B-25's for VIP transport, two B-17's one for VIP (large party) transport
the other for SAR, and quite a few other aircraft for other duties.

I belonged to a "composite squadron" (VC-62). It wasn't a fighter, bomber
or attack squadron, we performed roles to help ships in their training,
VIP transport and ferry duties. One good thing about a VC squadron....
they never deployed !!

Charles

comiso90 · Oct 25, 2007

Thanks for the info...

You mentioned .50's... That may have been typical but was there anything larger?

Do they still use target tugs for Phalanx practice?

ccheese · Oct 25, 2007

comiso90 said:
Thanks for the info...

You mentioned .50's... That may have been typical but was there anything larger?

Do they still use target tugs for Phalanx practice?

If the ships wanted AA practice, there was another squadron that used
drones, that were actually large models. As for Phalanx practice I would
guess they use drones...... drone aircraft.

Charles

Glider · Oct 25, 2007

I believe that its one of those tasks that look and sound dangerous but is pretty safe.
That said I bet some of the pilots have some stories to tell

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 25, 2007

comiso90 said:
Do they still use target tugs for Phalanx practice?

I honestly dont know but I would guess that today drones are the only that is used now.

comiso90 · Oct 25, 2007

A jet drone makes sense for when your launching missiles at a fast mover but drones seem like a waste for guns and cannons.

comiso90 · Oct 25, 2007

good sites on drones:

[2.0] Modern US Target Drones

[1.0] Early US Target Drones

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ppopsie · Oct 25, 2007

About ten years ago one of our JMSDF DE shot down a target tug instead of the target by 20mm Phalanx CIWS with just a burst. The airplane was an USN A-6 Intruder. Too bad for the airplane crews but they were all rescued.

Graeme · Oct 25, 2007

Glider said:
I believe that its one of those tasks that look and sound dangerous but is pretty safe.
That said I bet some of the pilots have some stories to tell

I've read (somewhere) that one of the most common phrases from the job is along the lines of;

"Tow pilot to attacker-we're PULLING the target, not phucking PUSHING it!!"

Glider · Oct 26, 2007

Many years ago on HMS Tiger we scored a direct hit on a towed target with the 6in. Must have stirred the crew of the tug.

mhuxt · Oct 26, 2007

Graeme said:
I've read (somewhere) that one of the most common phrases from the job is along the lines of;

"Tow pilot to attacker-we're PULLING the target, not phucking PUSHING it!!"

My Dad apparently received "a stern dressing down" from a senior NCO (who himself couldn't keep a straight face) for a breach of wireless protocol after just such an incident.

Rockets came at the towing vessel, not at the target barge - threats of flogging were made and questions of inbreeding were raised, in spite of the pilot's superior rank.

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