The best 2-engined bomber in 1944-45?

[tomo pauk]

Out of many workhorses, what 2-engined bomber might be reckoned as the best for time frame between Jan 1944 to VE day? I'm looking at the best complete package (payload over distance, performance with bomb load, reasonable ability to survive vs. fighters AAA, ability to attack different targets, etc), being in combat service (no prototypes, or pre-series types).
Note that I did not state light/medium/heavy/attack bomber type, since different countries have had different nomenclatures. Instead of that: a twin-engined bomber to rule them all

 

[davebender]

best complete package (payload over distance, performance with bomb load, reasonable ability to survive vs. fighters AAA, ability to attack different targets, etc),

Me-410 has the best bombing accuracy (it could dive bomb). Good armor protection vs AA fire, range and survivability vs enemy fighter aircraft.

Mosquito carried a heavier bomb load but less armor protection. Like the Me-410 it had excellent range and survivability vs enemy aircraft.

A-26 was more of a traditional medium bomber but it was a good one. The USAAC finally realized that speed was more important then multiple defensive gun turrets.

 

[wuzak]

Mosquito without a doubt.

 

[pbfoot]

A26 Invader without a doubt still flying combat missions in the 70`s which certainly surpasses Mosquito

 

[jim]

Me 410 was very good light bomber , so was P1Y Ginga
A26 invader was good and proved valuable in Korea and Vietnam but always had the benefit of total air superiority provided by the huge numbers of american fighters
My best proposal would be Ki-67 Peggy . Only on two 1900 ps engines, provided good passive protection, heavy and well distributed defensive armament, exceptional manouverability, easy handling,good range , good speed and 6/8 man crew( an exxageration in my opinion). a good basis for upgraded engines and equipment. And one of the most beautiful aircraft of the era . On the other hand the internal bomb load of 1000kgr indicates a small internal bomb bay and lack of 2 stage superchargers limited altitude performance. I would rated it slightly higher than -the excellent- A 26

 

[Thorlifter]

Wouldn't complete air superiority make just about any plane better than it really is?

I'll side with the A-26 for reasons already stated.

 

[woljags]

Mosquito

 

[davebender]

Why does this matter? Pathfinder aircraft are the only light/medium bombers that have any business above 20,000 feet.

 

[Siegfried]

The Arado 234B, clearly the fastest bomber in service. It had plenty of growth left in it, the Arado 234C with quad engines could push the aircraft well into the 500mph range and a swept or rather crescent wing version was under construction.

The days of the slow level bomber was over; they were probably only months away from being bisected by the first surface to air missiles or slashed by radar assisted computing gun sights firing from fighters able to aim and attack accuratly from any direction and fire from out of the range of defensive guns. Even radar direted tail guns (such as village in) would be of little use against a fighter capable of blind fire at much greater distances and perhaps using unguided proximity fused missiles such as the Rheinmetall-Borsig R100 (about 25 were fired.)

The Arado 234 could aim its bombs by a number of electronic means (Zyklops a beam riding system and also EG-ON a transponder based system) which was the only way to be accurate way to aim; well ahead of H2S or optical (in all but the clearest days). The Arado 234B could also aim its bombs via the Lotfe 7 level bombing sight linked to the autopilot and the Stuvi 5B slide/dive bombing sight with BZA computer. The Ar 234C added a second crew member as well as much more speed and thrust.

 

[pbfoot]

Only months away was a lifetime in the crumbling Reich and all their fantasy weapons would end up being for naught and your talking about the 4 engine version which is not part of the discussion. The reich was a none factor

 

[jim]

Mr Siegfried
Obviusly jets provided unmatched performance but i feel ,even german jets, belong to the post war era. Additionaly Arado 234 without an internal bomb bay and given its range/bombload combinations seems more like an attack aircraft than a medium bomber
Speaking of Arado 234 .... I read somewhere that the C version was faster even than Me 262A , Do you agree? Eric Brown loved that bird

 

[wuzak]

Why does this matter? Pathfinder aircraft are the only light/medium bombers that have any business above 20,000 feet.

Below 20,000ft surely brings the bombers well within flak range?

And if bombing from 20-30,000ft was good for the 4 engines heavies, what is wrong with the twins bombing from up there also?

Surely you either want to be up there or just above ground level?

 

[wuzak]

A26 Invader without a doubt still flying combat missions in the 70`s which certainly surpasses Mosquito

It wasn't flying combat missions continuously in that period. And it wasn't operating as a bomber so much as ground attack/coin aircraft.

It only flew in Vietnam because the USAF discovered that they had failed to field an appropriate aircraft for the role. So the A-26 filled in.

 

[davebender]

A price that must be paid if you want to hit the target with iron bombs. That's why the Me-410 and Ju-88 could dive bomb.

 

[wuzak]

A price that must be paid if you want to hit the target with iron bombs. That's why the Me-410 and Ju-88 could dive bomb.

If you want to hit the target then you could bomb from low level.

Unless you were using bombs that needed to penetrate - in which case you need height (and a bomb specifically designed for the task).

 

[davebender]

23 Sep 1941.
Hans Rudel approached Kronstadt harbor @ 9,000 feet in a Ju-87 dive bomber. He released his 1,000kg bomb @ 900 feet and leveled out @ 12 feet above the ocean. His 1,000kg bomb detonated in the forward magazine of the battleship Marat which broke in half and sank.

Based on the historical evidence I think 9,000 feet provides plenty of penetration.

 

[pbfoot]

It wasn't flying combat missions continuously in that period. And it wasn't operating as a bomber so much as ground attack/coin aircraft.

It only flew in Vietnam because the USAF discovered that they had failed to field an appropriate aircraft for the role. So the A-26 filled in.

But it did fly missions 11000+ , and as for Viet Nam there was always the Skyraider but I'd take the A26 over any Mosquito a far better aircraft with a better engine that once again is still in use today which cannot be said of the Merlin

 

[tyrodtom]

I was at Nakhon Phanom, RTAFB in the late 60's, we had both A1's and A-26's, ( though they were back to calling them a B-26 then) We supported pilot recovery missions, and bombed the trucks on the Ho Chi Minh trail at night. They seemed to prefer the A-26 for night missions, or they didn't think they could survive a day mission. The only A-26s up during daylight hours was just doing maintenance check flights.
The A1's flew night or day, the A-26's night only in 67-68 at that base.

 

[tyrodtom]

23 Sep 1941.
Hans Rudel approached Kronstadt harbor @ 9,000 feet in a Ju-87 dive bomber. He released his 1,000kg bomb @ 900 feet and leveled out @ 12 feet above the ocean. His 1,000kg bomb detonated in the forward magazine of the battleship Marat which broke in half and sank.

Based on the historical evidence I think 9,000 feet provides plenty of penetration.

That 8000 feet plus that he held on to the bomb added no velocity to the bombs fall, any bomb will fall faster than a aircraft, unless it's retarded with a parachute or retarding fins. He held on to it down to 900 for accuracy only.

 

[GregP]

Douglas A-26 all the way for me, though I really like some of the Japanese twins like th Peggy.