The best SOF of WW2

[Soren]

So considering expertize, gear, training success vs circumstances which Special Operations Force was the best of WW2 in your opinion ?

1. The Brandenburgers
2. The Commandos
3. The Rangers
4. The Kaukopartios
5. The SS JagdVerbände
6. The Z Special Units
7. The Gurkha's

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am not sure which one is the best because well I am sure each one had its advantages and disadvantages and each one had a particular thing it was "specialized" in.

Frankly I dont know eneogh about the different "Special Forces" to vote on which one is best.

I do however think that the SAS should be included in the group since they were formed in August of 1941 since they were somewhat seperate from the Commandos.

Technically there was also the Special Boat Service and the Long Range Desert Group.

The US had the Army Rangers.

Tehnically also the OSS was a SOF group since they armed and trained resistance groups which is a role of modern SOF groups.

 

[Soren]

Roger that Adler, but some of the above SO units specialized themselves at both land, sea air operations, the Brandenburgers did and the Commandos did as-well.

Technically the Elite FallschirmJägers the GebirgsJägers were also SO units, highly trained specialized in their field, having to undergo considerably harder training than the already rigerous training of the enlisted Wehrmacht soldiers, whose training was already 3 times as long as the average US British soldier. However to keep the list short I didn't include these, but also because I'd have to add the equally specialized OSS, SAS, SBS etc etc.. Ofcourse the same can be said about the Rangers, Gurkhas Z special units.

Come to think about, if you can, you may add all these Adler - I did make it possible to choose more than one.

 

[drgondog]

Roger that Adler, but some of the above SO units specialized themselves at both land, sea air operations, the Brandenburgers did and the Commandos did as-well.

Technically the Elite FallschirmJägers the GebirgsJägers were also SO units, highly trained specialized in their field, having to undergo considerably harder training than the already rigerous training of the enlisted Wehrmacht soldiers, whose training was already 3 times as long as the average US British soldier. However to keep the list short I didn't include these, but also because I'd have to add the equally specialized OSS, SAS, SBS etc etc.. Ofcourse the same can be said about the Rangers, Gurkhas Z special units.

Come to think about, if you can, you may add all these Adler - I did make it possible to choose more than one.

The First Special Service Force is notably absent from your list - and may have as much quality as any of them, although the deployment was more aligned to Rangers... and Mark Clark misused them almost criminally -.

Having said that - the Anzio beach head would been rolled up had it not been for the defense that the equivalent of two battalions of 504/1SSF put up at Mussolini Canal.

Far too many 'special' units ranging from Commando to Rangers to Airborne to 1SSF were wasted by Generals like Clark and Montgomery..

Skorzeny may have been the most daring of the leaders, although nobody could lay claim to having more courage than Frederick as a leader of any of the above orgs.

Merrill's Marauders, Raiders, etc, etc.

How do you judge 'best' ???

 

[Njaco]

Not knowing very many of the units I've always admired the Gurhkas.

 

[comiso90]

anything otto skorzeny took part in..

Otto Skorzeny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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[Divplaksnis]

I say SS JagdVerbände because i like them

 

[renrich]

I don't believe the Gurkhas were a "special Force" unit specifically. They were mainly just units in the Indian Army. John Masters commanded a regiment of Gurkhas and they were part of Wingate's Chindits. My father in law served in the CBI and he said the Gurkhas were noted for being outstanding soldiers. Masters' book "The Road Past Mandalay" is well worth a read for details about Gurkhas, the Indian Army and the Chindits. I probably have the numbers garbled a little but my recollection is that after the Chindits had been operating behind the lines in Burma for about 6 weeks, their brigade commander had been flown out and Masters, his adjutant was commanding. He had about 1400 men left, most suffering from disease and light wounds. A medical team was flown in and every man was given a physical with the result that around a dozen were found "fit for duty" They all were evacuated.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Im with Bill here. I dont know how to judge the best. They were all equally good and they all had there advantages and disadvantages over each other.

 

[renrich]

Another story from the CBI. My aforementioned father in law was a high up medical officer in the US Army and said that when Merrills Marauders were pulled out from the mission they were on, they were billeted in a rest camp somewhere in India. Unfortunately the rest camp was infected and infested with mite typhus so the ones who were not already sick got sick.

 

[ccheese]

I don't know diddly about Special Forces. I don't know if the Turks had a
special force unit, but they are undoubtly the fiercest bunch of bas!ards
I've ever seen in the field ! I saw them in Nam and their "methods" border
on atrocities. I've seen them throw away a fully automatic weapon to go
after a man with a knife ! Just for the sheer pleasure of it...

Charles

 

[Lucky13]

I don't know a diddly-squat about this, but, didn't Carlson's Raiders go out on one of the longest patrols during the pacific war? What was it, 30 days on Guadalcanal? But they were marines weren't they?

Also, whenever I thought of special operations (as a kid I have to add) the british commandos always popped up first...

 

[glennasher]

IIRC, the SAS came out of the Long Range Desert Group, so I'm not sure that the accolades accorded for the SAS shouldn't be awarded to LRDG, at least during the early part of the war. That still leaves too many choices though, there were a heckuva lot of specialized units during that time period. I'm not even sure that 617 Squadron shouldn't be considered, at least for the Dams Raid. Too many choices..........

 

[Soren]

Hmmm.. Ok, let me make a hypothetical mission here;

What SOF would you choose if your mission was for them to be dropped deeply inside the jungle of Congo (Africa), locate, secure and retrieve a vital treasure before another country's SOF gets there ?

For this you'll need to consider weapons, gear training, AND, ofcourse, the method for reaching the target location first.

Hehe, this will be fun, reminds me of an Indiana Jones adventure 8)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

IIRC, the SAS came out of the Long Range Desert Group, so I'm not sure that the accolades accorded for the SAS shouldn't be awarded to LRDG, at least during the early part of the war. That still leaves too many choices though, there were a heckuva lot of specialized units during that time period. I'm not even sure that 617 Squadron shouldn't be considered, at least for the Dams Raid. Too many choices..........

If I understand the history of the SAS correctly it did not come out of the LRDG. It was formed as a completely seperate group but they worked in conjunction with the LRDG.

The SAS even called the LRDG the Libyan Desert Taxi Service.

 

[Soren]

Lets stick to actual troops guys, not aviators.

Now consider my little hypothetical Indy adventure

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont have an answer for you. Like I said I dont know eneogh about WW2 Spec Ops to decide on that.

 

[Soren]

Well then concentrate on things other than training. I could for example ask, what would you want to have with you if you were in charge ?

 

[AVRoe]

In July 1941 a member of 8 commando, Layforce was injured and on crutches after a parachute jump; 24 year old Captain David Stirling believed in the idea of the Special Services and set about devising a plan that could continue the work of these units but with fewer men and a smaller drain on other resources. Knowing the hostility that existed towards such forces within the officer class Stirling stormed in to the British General Headquarters in the Middle East to gain the Commander in Chief's (General Claude Auchinleck) personal permission to form a Special Service.

Against the advice of many of his senior staff Auchinleck gave Stirling permission to recruit four officers and sixty men into a new unit called the 'L detachment to the Special Air Service Brigade,' a name that was given to convince the Germans that the unit was attached to a much bigger airborne commando brigade, despite no such unit existing (the idea of airborne commandos was also in its infancy). Most of the recruits (all volunteers) came from Stirlings previous unit No 8 Army Commando, Layforce now disbanded.
Jock Lewis and Paddy Mayne were two of the first officers and are now legends of the SAS. Bob Bennett and Johnny Cooper were two of the first non commissioned soldiers to join the regiment.

 

[lesofprimus]

Someone needs to mention The Jedburghs, who did some unreal things in occupied France before/during and after D-Day....