The F-105's of Operation Rolling Thunder

[MIflyer]

Look at this: http://cademartin.com/overwar/

 

[Barrett]

One of my antique flying buddies survived a 105 tour in 1966-67. ROE required him to pass up two MiG 21s on the departure end of Kep when he or his wingie could've hosed them with the 20mm. Jim said, "The only reason I'm here is that the Thud would do 700 kts on the deck."

He became a CAP advisor and one day I visited his office. The subject of ROE returned: he went to the window, stuck his head out and hollered "Robert McNamara is a sonofabitch!" Somehow he made colonel anyway!

 

[Zipper730]

F-105D's and G's were most common

 

[MIflyer]

In Dr Price's book "War in the 4th Dimension" he describes the horrific losses of the early F-105 missions due largely to the disdain the leadership had for the ECM gear they already had available.

 

[Zipper730]

From what I remember, the high loss-rates involved with the F-105 were caused by the following

• A possible misguided belief that the F-105's speed would make it harder to hit than was the case
• The fact that the flight paths seemed to be fairly consistent and predictable
• The fact that, in order to avoid killing Russian military advisors or Vietnamese civilians, we relayed data through the Swiss Embassy as to where our flights would hit so they could evacuate in time

While I generally think we should refrain from killing innocent people if we can, even in time of war, I'm not above making my opponent sweat a little bit on what we may or may not do -- that being said, the relaying of target data to our enemy was treason however misguided or well intentioned (and I'm not totally certain about that).

 

[Zipper730]

In Dr Price's book "War in the 4th Dimension" he describes the horrific losses of the early F-105 missions due largely to the disdain the leadership had for the ECM gear they already had available.

I didn't know they had a disregard for such things, though it sounds very stupid

 

[MIflyer]

I didn't know they had a disregard for such things, though it sounds very stupid

The ECM pods were considered to be newfangled nonsense that took up stores positions that would be better loaded with weapons. They had even been left outside. Once they figured out the pods could keep the SAM-2's away everybody started yelling for them and they had to share them between units, not having enough for everyone.

When the RF-101's started flying over Cuba during the Missile Crisis they lacked any radar warning receivers. They ended up taking a little pocket receiver that had been developed by the CIA as a portable unit for use by their agents on the ground and carrying it in the airplanes. Of course, circa 1978 an F-5E Aggressor pilot at Nellis stuck a Fuzzbuster in his cockpit and confounded every attempt by the new AWACS and F-15's to nail him. They finally sat him down and said, "Okay, we give up. You have SOMETHING that's giving you an edge. Let's see it."

 

[Zipper730]

The ECM pods were considered to be newfangled nonsense that took up stores positions that would be better loaded with weapons.

I'm surprised, the USAF had heavily invested in ECM weapons for it's bombers

When the RF-101's started flying over Cuba during the Missile Crisis they lacked any radar warning receivers.

I figure bombers and recon would be fitted

They ended up taking a little pocket receiver that had been developed by the CIA as a portable unit for use by their agents on the ground and carrying it in the airplanes. Of course, circa 1978 an F-5E Aggressor pilot at Nellis stuck a Fuzzbuster in his cockpit and confounded every attempt by the new AWACS and F-15's to nail him. They finally sat him down and said, "Okay, we give up. You have SOMETHING that's giving you an edge. Let's see it."

That might be an urban legend: The F-5's were allowed to kluge a RWR device because the MiG-21F's had it too.

 

[MIflyer]

That's no urban legend. I heard about it in 1978 from one of the ALC guys who were supporting the airplanes.