The F35, whats good.Whats bad.

michael rauls · Oct 20, 2018

I've been trying to read up a bit on the F35 and two things about it jump out at me. One very good. One not terrable but maybe not so good.( but what do I know).
First the good, seems like it's ability to gather information and put it together into one comprehensive view for the pilot of of what's going on around him out to verry long distances is so valuable it almost can not be overstated
The bad, I'm a bit apprehensive about it being tasked to do everything. That is to replace multiple types of more specialized aircraft. I understand for example that there were plans to have it replace the A10 although apparently that particular plan has been at least partially scratched at least for now.
In my estamation the first good quality far outweighs any plans to try to have it do to many things(which wouldn't really be a shortcoming of the design but a shortcoming of the planners)
There are several people here who are eminently more qualified than me to expand on the qualities of theF35( I can think of one inparticular) so I thought it might make for not only a topic of discussion that is interesting to us on this forum but one that should matter to every person in this country as it seems the F35 is set to become the backbone of all our airborne defense forces in the future.

pbehn · Oct 20, 2018

There are quite a few F-35 discussion threads, I cant copy then to my reply but if you put it in a search you will get there.

michael rauls · Oct 20, 2018

pbehn said:
There are quite a few F-35 discussion threads, I cant copy then to my reply but if you put it in a search you will get there.

Ok thanks. I'll take a look. I had never seen a thread on it so I thought it was a new topic for discussion.
Oh well, so much for thinking I'd thought of a great new topic

pbehn · Oct 20, 2018

michael rauls said:
Ok thanks. I'll take a look. I had never seen a thread on it so I thought it was a new topic for discussion.

Just be careful to put in the hyphen F-35. There has been a lot of discussion.

parsifal · Oct 20, 2018

Too early to say all the good things but there will be many IMO

Bad things are cost and delays

FLYBOYJ · Oct 20, 2018

First, when you talk about the F-35, it's mission and capabilities, you have to almost have to forget about traditional aerial warfare. The F-35 is basically a supercomputer wrapped around an airframe that gives the performance of an early model F-18. There have been other weapon systems and technologies tied into it's development and deployment and that has to be considered as well.

Cost? It's expensive but some of the bad press has been exaggerated. Right now an F-35B will run you about the same price as an F-22 (if the production line was still open). Delays? Who's production line are we talking about? There were delays in the US but also understand that the Pentagon has to approve schedule delays and cost over-runs, and some of those overruns were due to the customer base asking for additional requirements.

The F-35 is a game changer and as it matures it will continue to quiet the critics.

Now let's see how the press greets the B-21.

michael rauls · Oct 20, 2018

FLYBOYJ said:
First, when you talk about the F-35, it's mission and capabilities, you have to almost have to forget about traditional aerial warfare. The F-35 is basically a supercomputer wrapped around an airframe that gives the performance of an early model F-18. There have been other weapon systems and technologies tied into it's development and deployment and that has to be considered as well.

Cost? It's expensive but some of the bad press has been exaggerated. Right now an F-35B will run you about the same price as an F-22 (if the production line was still open). Delays? Who's production line are we talking about? There were delays in the US but also understand that the Pentagon has to approve schedule delays and cost over-runs, and some of those overruns were due to the customer base asking for additional requirements.

The F-35 is a game changer and as it matures it will continue to quiet the critics.

Now let's see how the press greets the B-21.

Thanks for the reply. That it wil be a game changer with its ability to gather information and present it to the pilot as one comprehensive picture is the impression I get and hope turns out to be accurate. Unlike most I don't see the cost as even an issue. If you take the original cost of a B52 for example, start in 1955, and factor in 3.5%( the long term average in the US) inflation it comes in at about 126,000,000 in todays dollars. That's actually about 30% more than the F35 at 90,000,000 a copy.
I just hope they are not expecting it to cover to many bases that in some cases might be handled better be a more specialized aircraft.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 20, 2018

If you're talking about the A-10 scenario, again you have to re-think this. Hobby drones on the market today could land within 6 inches from where they took off. A guy with a laser sight and small precision weapons could do more damage than 10 A-10s. Attack helicopters are often forgotten about for a similar role

michael rauls · Oct 20, 2018

FLYBOYJ said:
If you're talking about the A-10 scenario, again you have to re-think this. Hobby drones on the market today could land within 6 inches from where they took off. A guy with a laser sight and small precision weapons could do more damage than 10 A-10s. Attack helicopters are often forgotten about for a similar role

Good points. I certainly have high hopes for it.

jetcal1 · Oct 20, 2018

I can't speak to the airplane. I will speak to the AGE. It sucks. everything I've seen from the CGCAC to the engine R&R trolley is ridiculously complex and expensive. The ejection seat carts in particular are fragile, overweight and completely unsuitable for shipboard use. Whoever is running the GSE desk at JAPO need to be forced to do an engine change onboard the Wasp.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 21, 2018

jetcal1 said:
I can't speak to the airplane. I will speak to the AGE. It sucks. everything I've seen from the CGCAC to the engine R&R trolley is ridiculously complex and expensive. The ejection seat carts in particular are fragile, overweight and completely unsuitable for shipboard use. Whoever is running the GSE desk at JAPO need to be forced to do an engine change onboard the Wasp.

Great info from one who is there. With that said understand that the design of AGE (just like the aircraft) goes back to the customer and a library of specs that were incorporated in the original contract. IIRC the F-22 boarding ladder cost close to a million dollars to develop and manufacture - a boarding ladder!?!? If you try to explain that to the general public they still blame the manufacturer

jetcal1 · Oct 21, 2018

FLYBOYJ said:
Great info from one who is there. With that said understand that the design of AGE (just like the aircraft) goes back to the customer and a library of specs that were incorporated in the original contract. IIRC the F-22 boarding ladder cost close to a million dollars to develop and manufacture - a boarding ladder!?!? If you try to explain that to the general public they still blame the manufacturer

I would be happy to be wrong. Airbus deserves credit because they told the customer "no" when bringing the UH-72 online. It was supposed to be COTS and aside from a few changes, it remains a COTS bird.

michaelmaltby · Mar 22, 2019

'Hot crew swaps': F-35s are the first single engine fighters to fly on repeat

The F35, whats good.Whats bad.

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