Dear Fellow WW II Aircraft Fans:
The PIPE Here...and one of the very best books I've ever obtained for my personal library of historic aviation books is the English language edition of a book first published in 1989, and authored by Manfred Griehl and Joachim Dressel, on the most "enigmatic" aircraft of the Luftwaffe, the He 177 ''Greif'', whic I've variously known as "Stuck-Ugly" (it was NOT a "handsome" aircraft, by any stretch of the imagination!), and more recently as "The Gruesome Griffin", from its history of engine fires and many, many other failings that led it to be considered the biggest "failure" of the Third Reich's entire aviation industry, esopecially of those Luftwaffe aircraft that actually saw some serious front line action.
It's IN that book, one of the most recently authored and RESEARCHED volumes on an otherwise enigmatic aircraft, that the whole story of one (of three) of the 'individually" four-engined developments of the 177A, the "He 277" design, as having the "cover designation" of "He 177B", was totally blown apart by research, and supported by Heinkel factory documents, as evidence as nothing more than what is called today, an "urban legend".
It's in the pages of that book that the "He 177B" is actually proven to be a REAL development of the A-series Griffin, backed up by Heinkel factory documents and research, and by the reality that of the three project aircraft that Heinkel did work on later in WW II that were meant to be "four-individually-engined" developments of the "coupled-engine" 177A series...the He 177B, the "He 277" and the He 274...
...FOUR prototypes of the He 177B (He 177 V101 to V104) WERE built at Heinkel's southerly production facility near Vienna, with three of them flying; two prototypes of the He 274 were started before the war's end, and complted and flown in France after the war, but none...NONE...of the parts that were made for the "He 277" design were EVER brought together into a complete aircraft at any time, before OR after the war.
In a thread started by "rousseau" of our forum, at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/engines/engine-quastion-about-he-177-a-11699.html , in wondering why the Gruesome Griffin was not powered by twin-tandem layout DB 601 or 605 inverted V12s at thje start, where a French bomber or two, and a number of Dornier flying boat designs, had used tandem multi-engine configurations with quite a degree of success, wanted to know a bit more about why the clumsy DB 606 610 "poewr system" powerplants had to be used...
...and it was for a number of reasons (streamlining, less drag, and a demented
"Big Stuka" mentality by some in the RLM, among others) that had cursed the Griffin-A series to have what Reichsmarschall Goering would deride, by late summer of 1943, as "those monstrosities of welded-together engines" as first related in the Griehl/Dressel volume, when Goering described what he thought of the DB 606 and 610.
I was the one who brought up, in Rousseau's thread, the "welded-together engine" monicker that Goering had placed on the DB 606 610 in his thread, and the facts of the He 177B being the "furthest-along in development" solution to giving the Luftwaffe a real four engined, Allied style "heavy", as told in the Griehl/Dressel book. That effort was getting Rousseau's original thread a bit sidetracked, so I thought it would be best to revisit that whole issue of the He 277 NEVER having actually been completed, at ANY time, versus the four He 177B prorotypes actually being built, with three of them flying, in a thread of its own.
When I've got some more time later in this thread, I'll quote some of the things I spotted in that book that bear out what sure LOOKS like the whole "coomplete He 277s was/were flying before the end of the war" story to BE nothing more than an urban legend...and where so many things seem to be different in the Griehl/Dressel book, from almost everything that's been printed before about HOW the development of four-individually-engined improvements of the Gruesome Griffin occurred, seem to bear out that the He 277 was not only not even built as a complete aircraft at any time, but that the He 277 design was also considered to be a competitor, right alongside the Me 264, Fw 300, Ta 400 and Ju 488, all as possible piston-engined candidates for the "Amerika Bomber" project, as Chapter 5 of the Griehl-Dressel book relates.
I'll be letting them know over at rousseau's thread about this NEW one...
Thank you and Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
The PIPE Here...and one of the very best books I've ever obtained for my personal library of historic aviation books is the English language edition of a book first published in 1989, and authored by Manfred Griehl and Joachim Dressel, on the most "enigmatic" aircraft of the Luftwaffe, the He 177 ''Greif'', whic I've variously known as "Stuck-Ugly" (it was NOT a "handsome" aircraft, by any stretch of the imagination!), and more recently as "The Gruesome Griffin", from its history of engine fires and many, many other failings that led it to be considered the biggest "failure" of the Third Reich's entire aviation industry, esopecially of those Luftwaffe aircraft that actually saw some serious front line action.
It's IN that book, one of the most recently authored and RESEARCHED volumes on an otherwise enigmatic aircraft, that the whole story of one (of three) of the 'individually" four-engined developments of the 177A, the "He 277" design, as having the "cover designation" of "He 177B", was totally blown apart by research, and supported by Heinkel factory documents, as evidence as nothing more than what is called today, an "urban legend".
It's in the pages of that book that the "He 177B" is actually proven to be a REAL development of the A-series Griffin, backed up by Heinkel factory documents and research, and by the reality that of the three project aircraft that Heinkel did work on later in WW II that were meant to be "four-individually-engined" developments of the "coupled-engine" 177A series...the He 177B, the "He 277" and the He 274...
...FOUR prototypes of the He 177B (He 177 V101 to V104) WERE built at Heinkel's southerly production facility near Vienna, with three of them flying; two prototypes of the He 274 were started before the war's end, and complted and flown in France after the war, but none...NONE...of the parts that were made for the "He 277" design were EVER brought together into a complete aircraft at any time, before OR after the war.
In a thread started by "rousseau" of our forum, at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/engines/engine-quastion-about-he-177-a-11699.html , in wondering why the Gruesome Griffin was not powered by twin-tandem layout DB 601 or 605 inverted V12s at thje start, where a French bomber or two, and a number of Dornier flying boat designs, had used tandem multi-engine configurations with quite a degree of success, wanted to know a bit more about why the clumsy DB 606 610 "poewr system" powerplants had to be used...
...and it was for a number of reasons (streamlining, less drag, and a demented
"Big Stuka" mentality by some in the RLM, among others) that had cursed the Griffin-A series to have what Reichsmarschall Goering would deride, by late summer of 1943, as "those monstrosities of welded-together engines" as first related in the Griehl/Dressel volume, when Goering described what he thought of the DB 606 and 610.I was the one who brought up, in Rousseau's thread, the "welded-together engine" monicker that Goering had placed on the DB 606 610 in his thread, and the facts of the He 177B being the "furthest-along in development" solution to giving the Luftwaffe a real four engined, Allied style "heavy", as told in the Griehl/Dressel book. That effort was getting Rousseau's original thread a bit sidetracked, so I thought it would be best to revisit that whole issue of the He 277 NEVER having actually been completed, at ANY time, versus the four He 177B prorotypes actually being built, with three of them flying, in a thread of its own.
When I've got some more time later in this thread, I'll quote some of the things I spotted in that book that bear out what sure LOOKS like the whole "coomplete He 277s was/were flying before the end of the war" story to BE nothing more than an urban legend...and where so many things seem to be different in the Griehl/Dressel book, from almost everything that's been printed before about HOW the development of four-individually-engined improvements of the Gruesome Griffin occurred, seem to bear out that the He 277 was not only not even built as a complete aircraft at any time, but that the He 277 design was also considered to be a competitor, right alongside the Me 264, Fw 300, Ta 400 and Ju 488, all as possible piston-engined candidates for the "Amerika Bomber" project, as Chapter 5 of the Griehl-Dressel book relates.
I'll be letting them know over at rousseau's thread about this NEW one...
Thank you and Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
Last edited:
