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the range need to P-47 not at 109, P-47 has larger payload sure but it's also a larger plane, usability you talking of low readyness of luftwaffe fighters? maybe this a trouble in organization/logistic more that of planes, durability idk on this. Saw the advantage of 109, posted to davebender, i think 109G it's superior, as fighter, but a very high altitude, to P-47C in '43 (superior a old propelled and old engined P-47C or D).
p.s. superior, here, is not mean that P-47C it's not a match only that gustav has advantage
The first P-47D's entered combat in late June 1943 with the 4th, 56th and 78th FG - so why are we talking about P-47C as primary competition for the 109G in 1943? Most C's were replaced by August/September 1943.
But the 109G was a match for the P-47C or D except at altitudes > 20,000 feet where the P-47 advantages in speed, roll and dive started making a serious difference in choosing a fight with a tactical advantage.
the range need to P-47 not at 109, P-47 has larger payload sure but it's also a larger plane, usability you talking of low readyness of luftwaffe fighters? maybe this a trouble in organization/logistic more that of planes, durability idk on this. Saw the advantage of 109, posted to davebender, i think 109G it's superior, as fighter, but a very high altitude, to P-47C in '43 (superior a old propelled and old engined P-47C or D).
p.s. superior, here, is not mean that P-47C it's not a match only that gustav has advantage
early D was near to C, the water inition start with D-10 (also if D-4,5,6 can easy upgraded), new propeller from D-22, afaik the water inition start in use in january '44.
for P-47 maybe best choice altitude over 25k feet
Yes, but the -4RA had WI and was entering combat ops in October, 1943 for the first distinctive boost in performance over the C.
The D-4RA and D-5RE had WI installed at factory but it was manually controlled whereas the -10RA and -11RE were automativally controlled WI. IMO the D-10/-11 with the paddle blades, auto WI and CL bomb/fuel tank rack was the first P-47 truly suitable for practical escort work to and past the German Border
The C-2, C-5 and D-1,-2, -3 took some 200 hours to retrofit the manually controlled Water Injection modification.
IIRC, all the D's either had the centerline bomb/fuel tank rack or easily retrofitted wich gave the early D's both WI and longer range over the C, even though the C-2 and C-5 also could be retrofitted in fall 1943.
Bill, I've chose the main version of each 5 fighters (P-47 -38, F4U, F6F, Typhoon) available in 1943 for the sake of comparison against contemporary Bf-109.
generally is not so full for my source (Baugher page on P-47), what's your?
for data on first combat with WI/WEP can you give me more info and source?
(ocotber 1943 it's date for D-10 test on WEP it's strange that test are in same month of first combat use)
Read carefully - the 10-RE and -11RA were the first to have fully Automatic WI/WEP but the -4RA and -5RE were the first to have Manually Operated WI/WEP - which were also retrofit to the D-1,-2, -3 RA
Baugher is an excellent source for the production introductions but my primary also sources include "Gabby A Fighter Pilot's Life", MACR's, the 355th FG Histories (micrfilm A0784, A0783, A7083A, B0314, B0313) with all the engineering Sections at end of every month, 353rd FG History, etc.
From the Macr's it looks like the first Loss of a P-47D-5RE was from the 353rd FG on 5th September (42-8475) with 2 more on 15th and then 14th Oct. The 355th lost a P-47D-6RE (42-74667) on 4th October and received its first -4RA on September 9, 1943 and its first -10 on January 3rd, 1944.
Anyway Bronc. The following link is especially for you. I think most of us have seen it already but I guess you haven't. virtualpilots.fi: 109myths
Read it carefully. It shows the vices and problems of the Bf 109 but especially debunks the myths around it.
the 109 was designed to use turf rwys , and I'll wager most losses of any WW2 fighter was during the landing phase]
Apparently they were also dangerous to land on a bright, sunny day, at an airport on a paved strip. But enough about the
Bf-109's undercarriage. Everyone keeps ignoring (and making up excuses for) the obvious and discussing it any further
is going to get me banned.
I have a new VERY INTERESTING question that is suitable for a new post. (See below.)
Bronc
[. Everyone keeps ignoring (and making up excuses for) the obvious and discussing it any further
is going to get me banned.
Bronc
the 109 was designed to use turf rwys , and I'll wager most losses of any WW2 fighter was during the landing phase