Torpedo Boats (2 Viewers)

Best Torpedo Boat

  • S-Boot (Germany)

    Votes: 11 68.8%
  • Elco PT Boat (USA)

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Higgins PT Boat (USA)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vosper MTB (UK)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • British Power Boat MTB (UK)

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Fairmile D MTB (UK)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • MAS (Italy)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other:

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16

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It was the Molins gun, and was fitted to the Mosquito Mk XIII.

This is a video first posted by Charles Bronson on another thread. The gun was an awesome adjunct to the rocket firing Mosquitoes, particulalry devastaing to German U-Boats. Coastal Command also sank approximately 1 million tons of German shipping, to which should be added approximately 250000 tons from the light forces, and another 800000 tons or so from mines dropped by Bomber Command into the baltic and off the coast of Norway.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-a8U1QWUw
 
ah if only the S-Boot arm would of been so fully equipped on even terms/Allies, this would then have been quite interesting plus without any air support for both sides to even up things a bit.....
 
ah if only the S-Boot arm would of been so fully equipped on even terms/Allies, this would then have been quite interesting plus without any air support for both sides to even up things a bit.....

As with the Allied forces the German S boats increased their weapons. There were plans to equip them with 6 x 30mm but I don't think this was implmented. The most that I have heard of was 1 x 37 or 40mm and 6 x 20mm, but the heaviest that I have seen was 1 x 20mm in the bow, 1 x 37mm amidships and a triple 20mm at the stern.

This is by no means definitive and if anyone has more information I would appreciate it.

One interesting point is that the Germans had an armoured bridge which would protect the key areas from MG's which were carried by allied boats. RN boats almost always seemed to carry twin vickers in the bridge wings whatever the official weapons.
 
it could not handle a triple 20mm but was in fact a tri0le 15mm due to the special mounting involved, usal was the set up of a zwilling 2cm with or without shield and two mg 34's canted on each side to this was added either a 3.7 or 4cm bofors or a 2cm Flakvierling. up front the 2cm was usually discarded for more aerodynamics

future 700 plus boots were to have possibly up four 3cm cannon in place but due to the placement and experimentation of the "new" KM cannon they were not equipped as they would of not had the range capable of quick and effective action. there were at least 4 S-Booten with special experimental armored bridges apart from the regular S-36 class and later as standard S-100 Boots
 
it could not handle a triple 20mm but was in fact a tri0le 15mm due to the special mounting involved, usal was the set up of a zwilling 2cm with or without shield and two mg 34's canted on each side to this was added either a 3.7 or 4cm bofors or a 2cm Flakvierling. up front the 2cm was usually discarded for more aerodynamics

future 700 plus boots were to have possibly up four 3cm cannon in place but due to the placement and experimentation of the "new" KM cannon they were not equipped as they would of not had the range capable of quick and effective action. there were at least 4 S-Booten with special experimental armored bridges apart from the regular S-36 class and later as standard S-100 Boots

I admit that I thought that a triple 20mm mount was developed for boats in the Med where it was mounted instead of the zwilling 2cm and moved aft. Didn't realise that it was a triple 15mm, thanks for the information.

I also find it dificult to undestand why the bow 20mm was removed for aerodynamic reasons. The gun was just visible as the majority of the gun, crew and ammo was sunk into the foredeck. Topweight is probably as likely a reason for the removal, but even here the Germans normally removed two of the torpedo's.
I have seen pictures of S boats in 1944 with the bow 20mm but it didn't say when in 1944.
 
I dont think so. A PT Boat might have a torpedo broadside of 2 x 450mm torps, delivering a broadside of 800lbs of TNT to a distance of 3500 yds. Typically an MTB might weigh 100 tons, so thats 8 lbs of warhead per ton of displacement. If you multiple that number by the effective max range (in KMs) of the ordinance you will get some figure, that is a rough reflection of its firepower/Range capabilities per ton of warship. In the case of the MTBs its 28.

By comparison (and just as a representative sample of its type), a Fubuki class destroyer, which has a displacement of 1750 tons, give or take, and a torpedo broadside of 9 x 24" torps, each with a warhead size of 1720 lb warhead. The torpedo broadside of the japanese Destroyer is 15480 lbs, or 8.84 lbs per ton of warship. However this basic firepower factor is affected by the range of the larger weapon....the range of this weaponary is far superior to the lighter torps carried by the PT boats......the effective range is 16000 yds. The firepower-range per ton of displacement score of the Japanese Destroyer is 141.5 (compared to the score of just 28 for the PT Boat). This means that the DD carries roughly 5 times the firepower per ton of warship to the Light PT Boat, when effective ranges are taken into consideration
 
I remember that the six pounder was a deadly anti tank gun when first used in NA.

It was a 6pdr that resulted in the capture of the first Tiger in NA. The 6pdr also disabled another Tiger in the same combat which was recovered by the Germans.
 
My old man was RN in small craft and had a few mates on MTB's they hated having to go head to head with E-Boats as they were very much out gunned. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but off the top of my head I believe The US PT boats basic design (i think designated PT 8 or 9) came from a British designer Hubert or was it Herbert, Pain who designed and raced power boats. Of the various navies vessels i would pick the E Boat not that they had a much higher top speed but that they could do it in rougher seas so it gave them a huge advantage plus they had a pretty impressive array of weaponry for such a small boat
The hard chine of the PT and MTB hulls plained well but gave a much rougher ride in poor sea states.

His name is Hubert Scott-Paine. The book Fast Boats and Flying Boats is his biography. ISBN 7-85455-026-8 If there ever was an eccentric Englishman, S-P is one.

Another book for your Christmas list Glider.;)

S-P even raced the legendary Gar Wood.
 
Couldn't you say that, pound for pound the PT Boats were the heaviest armed fighting ships of the WWII?

You could well be right as some carried up to 4 x 21in Torpedo's. They varied considerably the normal selections being one of the following.

4 x 21in Torpedo's e.g. German S Boats, some PT Boats
4 x 18in TT e.g. RN MTB's no 380-395 some others as well
2 x 21 torpedo's loads of types
2 x 18in torpdoes loads of types.
 
According to the memoir I just read, the PTs weighed 60 tons and the author stated that the PTs were, pound for pound, the most heavily armed ships in the USN.
 
Glider

as I mentioned the 2cm front line was removed and mentioned one reason the others are vast, one is also the Flottilles were increasing their dreaded mining duties, so no need for a stinger up front but increase the cannon output from the rear on the return outward from the mining lanes
as increased Allied/Soviet air presence was observed the front inline was rather useless in that mode with the cramped downward quarters of the gunner with free movement of the zwiling and 3.7 and 4c, and quad 2cm crews besides overall visibolity
 
QUOTE=Glider;550336]You could well be right as some carried up to 4 x 21in Torpedo's. They varied considerably the normal selections being one of the following.

4 x 21in Torpedo's e.g. German S Boats, some PT Boats
4 x 18in TT e.g. RN MTB's no 380-395 some others as well
2 x 21 torpedo's loads of types
2 x 18in torpdoes loads of types.[/QUOTE]


Hi Glider


All S-Boote types were fitted with with two torpedo tubes plus 2 torpedo reloads. the projected 700 series were designed to fire all four fish simultaneously, but weree never built.

S Boats never carried 4 x 21 in torp tubes . They carried a maximum of two. However, from 1942 they were using a modified G-7e T-2 type toprpedo , which carried a 660 lb warhead, and had a nominal range of 5000m @ 30kts. The torpedo was relatively slow, but was electric (no wake). It was similar to the later war electrtric torps used by the Boats.

A worthwhile note on the German S Boats. The later ones were lightly armoured, and of course were fitted with Diesels. This gave them a reliable and powerful engine. S-Boats also had a low profile, and did not throw up a large telltale wake which was important.

There was massive differences in the British MTB/MGB armament. One of the best was the MTB 601 series, which represented the main types from 1942 to 1944. As an MTB they were fitted initially with 2 x 18, later this was modified to 2 x 21in or 4 x 18in. However the increase in torpedo broadside made these relatively slow boats even slower. Gun armament of the MTB was typically 2 x 6pounders, 2 to 3 x 20mm and 4 x 0.5in or 0.303in.

Italian MAS boats were much smaller and mor lightly armed, but were very fast. They had an excellent engine to work with in the Isotto Fraschini which yielded 2300hp. With two of these, their 30t MAS 551 could exceed 43 knots. These engines were also very reliable.

Whilst I do not believe that the MTB boat was more hevaily armed lb for lb than a destroyer, I think as a comparaison of lb for lb firepower between this general class of vessel, the prize would have to go to the MAS Boats. They only had a displacement of 28 tons, yet carried a significant proportion of the the firepower of their larger northern cousins. An S-Boat weighed 117 tons. A type 601 weighed 97 tons




As an MGB, they were originally fitted with 1 6 pounder, 1 x 2pounder 4 x 20mm and 4 MG. Later, in 1944, they were fitted with 2 x 21 in, so the demarcation between MGB and MTB became very blurred as the war dragged on.

Gun armament was typically restricted to 1 x 20mm for the types up to the S-38 groups. The S100 Group, which were the main types from 1942, were nominally fitted with 1 x 40mm and 1 x 20mm. Howver ther was quite a bit of variation to this basic arrangement
 
S-Boat Restoration:


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S130,The Sole Survivor, WW2 E Boat For Restoration


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wow... so big... cant compare it to a PT boat
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